Al Bernstein's scorecard for Whitaker-Chavez: 118-110 Whitaker

Alright, sweet_scientist, you've promised and delivered. Plenty of material there and I largely, honestly appreciate it. Now, it's my duty to get you some material requested and I ask you for some time since this is a very serious and elevated debate. I need to do research on what was requested in the hope there is something that may open another view for you.

Yes, I agree that someone such as myself that didn't like Whitaker's style, would hold that the fight was not a robbery. But having said that, I scored with the late help of Pharaoh 115-113 for Whitaker and I find conceivable scores such as 115-115... So let me adjust to the information you provided me with and see what can I make of it for my case. Thank You so much.

 

Investigating. Boxing Illustrated put up cards I think (I have both issues- and the 'sweet pea' shafted one). :good

 

You hit upon a very interesting point that I feel that along with the biased media portrayal of the fight, convinced the fans watching on TV what they were hearing.

I think alot of people were expecting more from JC Chavez, and its if like it is punishment that he did'nt perform up to the standards he had set in previous fights that he was judged upon.

I frequently here about Pernell Whitaker making JC Chavez' offense ineffective.
I've always countered that except for two rounds in that fight, Chavez did the same to Whitaker's offense.
.....but if falls on deaf ears in forums like these where often times people have made up their minds without even seeing and scoring the fight for themselves.

The way I see it, Pernell Whitaker was'nt judged by the media on how well he did offensively.
For them all they cared to see was that Chavez' usually destructive offense had been neutralized by a fighter that played great defense, and knew how to stall the offensive proceedings of a fight (in other words Pernell sure knows how to literally put everyone to sleep.)

Its as if only JC Chavez had the burden of putting up an effective offense, and Pernell Whitaker was'nt being judged on that criteria.

Pernell Whitaker made alot of those rounds non-eventful. History shows us that those types of rounds are typically judged and given to the aggressor coming foward who is trying to make the fight happen.
Why would that criteria have to change for Pernell Whitaker??

.....and remember gentleman. I know that many dont take the time and score a fight round by round.
....but thats how a fight is supposed to be scored, and its how the three judges in this fight scored the fight and came to the final verdict of a draw.

115-113 115-115 and 115-115
Those are the scores of the official judges. I dont think its any coincidence that the three judges were on the same page watching a close fight.

The only thing out of order would have been for Al Bernstein to have broadcast that fight live and came up with a 10-2 score in favor of Whitaker!

 

Btw, digging up material from Mexico from as far back as when this fight took place is impossible.
I've tried it before and could'nt even come up with a single article.


From what I can remember reading LA OPINION, as spanish reading newspaper who does alot of daily boxing coverage.
They did alot of their focus on Chavez and his inability to hunt down and hurt Whitaker as he had done to so many others.
Most of these spanish reading papers back in the day, told the story of controversy and people up at arms with the decision, but they fell short on calling the verdict a robbery for themselves.
I dont know why that is. It could be either one of two things imo.
One, they are latino based writers and had a bias for Chavez, or two there was'nt any bias, but were afraid with so many at arms with the decision, to say that it was'nt.
.....so alot of these Latino writers stayed neutral and did'nt say robbery either way.
One thing that I've noticed in this thread and in others where Scientist puts out these scores from sports writerrs......most of the Latino names that Scientist has posted with scores have it of the 115-113 variety.
.....and you've got to remember that Scientist is getting these scores from Magazines like Bert Sugars where he's trying to paint a portrayal of a shameless robbery.
Bert Sugar could have quoted 20 or 30 Latino writers and only used those scores that benefited his argument in his article.
....I would have to think that there were Latino writers who saw the draw justified, or who even saw it 115-113 the other way, but we just were'nt prevy to read them in these English speaking American magazines!

 

British Boxing News had Whitaker ahead

Boxing Monthly had Whitaker ahead

ITV, who broadcast it in UK, had Whitaker winning by three rounds. In the studio Lennox Lewis and Barry McGuigan had Whitaker winning (Lewis by four, Barry buy just one)

 

Cheers, sweet_scientist. I am not Mexican but I guess I am Latino and from Europe. Yes, I promise to give you an update on that, I'll try to do my best. For now, here is my latest scores and stats about the telecast and what I made of it: I won't score jabs for JCC cause that was not his approach against the southpaw so it's just effective jabs for Whitaker ( not range finders) and total punches/connects from both( not counting with Whitaker's jabs) :

Round 1 : Whitaker Jabs: 11
JCC Connects: 12 plus 4 jabs
Whitaker connects: 4
1st Whitaker round - 10-9

Round 2: Whitaker Jabs: 14
JCC Connects: 25
Whitaker connects: 12
1st JCC round - score 19-19

Round 3: Whitaker Jabs: 20
JCC Connects: 13 plus 5 jabs
Whitaker Connects: 8
2nd Whitaker round - score 29-28

Round 4: Whitaker Jabs: 7
JCC Connects: 14 plus 3 jabs
Whitaker Connects: 13
3rd Whitaker round - score 39-37

Round 5: Whitaker Jabs: 12
JCC Connects: 21 plus 3 jabs
Whitaker Connects: 13
2nd Chavez round - score 48-47

Round 6: Whitaker Jabs: 10
JCC Connects: 10 plus 3 jabs
Whitaker Connects: 8
3rd Chavez round - score 57-57 all even at mid-stage

Round 7: Whitaker Jabs: 10
JCC Connects: 10 plus 2 jabs
Whitaker Connects: 14
4th round Whitaker - score 67-66

Round 8: Whitaker Jabs: 7
JCC Connects: 13
Whitaker Connects: 24
5th round Whitaker - score 77-75

Round 9: Whitaker Jabs: 12
JCC Connects: 22
Whitaker Connects: 9
4th round Chavez - score 86-85

Round 10: Whitaker Jabs: 12
JCC Connects: 8
Whitaker Connects: 8
6th round Whitaker - score 96-94

Round 11: Whitaker Jabs: 6
JCC Connects: 10 plus 2 jabs
Whitaker Connects - 11
7th round Whitaker - score 106-103

Round 12: Whitaker Jabs: 2
JCC Connects: 18
Whitaker Connects: 10
5th round Chavez - Final Score 115-113 for Whitaker

 

i scored it 117 to 112

 

TONEY VS TIBERI VERY BAD DEC

 

I gave Chavez round 1 and 2. Thats it.