Foreman's comments on Ali's power...

C'mon JT! Larry punched sooooo hard, he decked LeDoux with a single finger on his right hand:good! (Scott was really pissed off after that match, because Holmes had a better thumb than LeDoux himself was able to produce against Norton.:fire)

 

It's useful to remember that Ali had the following opponents down for at least ten seconds. (I'll omit Sonny Liston, since nearly everybody believes he could have beaten the count in Lewiston.)

London, Folley, Blin, Blue Lewis (for nearly 15 seconds in round five), Bob Foster, Foreman, Wepner (finally struggled to his feet 12 seconds after going down in round 15), and Coopman.

That's eight opponents during Ali's run as a top heavyweight, to Larry Holmes's two. (Evangelista and Zanon, although Larry came extremely close to putting Ocasio down for the count with the first jab he dropped Jaws with.)

Additionally, the three knockdown rule was invoked against Archie Moore and Bonavena.

In round two of the middle fight with Frazier, he drove Smoke from ring center to a neutral corner before Tony Perez broke it up prematurely. The right cross Muhammad screened from Joe with his extended jab to initiate that sequence must have had some considerable force behind it to make Frazier give ground like that. (It was the only time in Ali/Frazier II that he sent Joe into full retreat.)

During the second Norton fight, Ali knocked Ken backwards with a left hook at 1:50 of round four, and at 2:11 of round six, he wobbled Norton with a cross screened behind his jab. Those may be the two punches Norton had in mind when he described Ali as a harder puncher than Holmes.

His performance against Blue Lewis is an interesting deviation from the usual behavior one might expect from a prime Ali. Competing against a slightly larger opponent on a softly padded canvas, and recovering from a cold, he continually stalked Lewis from a flatfooted posture, ducking shots more than leaning away from them, attacking the body steadily, keeping lower than his prey, and knocking Lewis around continually with consistently hard punches. This was one of those rare occasions where Muhammad really outslugged somebody his own size, forcing Lewis into retreat as they were each pounding away from a wide base.

For all intents and purposes, this should have been a clean one punch knockout win for Ali in round five. Muhammad's late round bomb had Lewis flat on his back from 03:37 to 03:49 according to the youtube counter, and he didn't come completely off the canvas until 03:52, at which point the bell rang ending the round. (Ali finally took to his toes in round 11, and the referee stopped the contest shortly thereafter.)

Lewis really should have been counted out of time in round five, even with referee Lew Eskin's leisurely sense of pacing. (Liston would have beaten the count in Lewiston if Eskin had been refereeing his rematch with Ali as he officiated in Dublin. Then again, Muhammad's Irish cousins did get their money's worth seeing him compete live.) Blue Lewis would have very interesting feedback to offer about Ali's power.

 

If Holmes managed to do that with his left, he was far more skilled than I give him credit for!

Although I haven't seen it since it aired live, what I remember is Chris Schenkel reviewing the slow-motion footage with LeDoux after the match, and from my sketchy recall of the event, the "extended digit" was on Larry's right. However, with Ali's antics stealing the show in Bloomington, it was a little challenging to pay close attention to what was actually happening inside the ring. Remember the closing shot of Ali shadowboxing in the audience, in white dress shirt, causing his necktie to flail wildly about? "(The fight) was terrible, LeDoux wasn't the man-I"M GOING TO DESTROY LARRY HOLMES!")

 

My mother could've kept Blue Lewis and Blin down for the count.

 

He went south of the boarder quite a bit.

 

Cooney didn't go low against just Larry, pretty much everyone. Also, Larry gets called dirty for a few thumbs, but Ali is called clean holding behind peoples heads through out his whole career, and getting yelled at by the ref numerous times during the fights for it. Ali was disgraceful in the 2nd Frazier fight with it.

 

In his autobiography, Arthur Mercante did call Ali a dirty fighter. Choir boys don't usually become dominant heavyweight champions. As for Scott Frank, well, he won the NJ HW Title from Chuck Wepner, so there was absolutely no way Larry was going to subject him to anything Scott wouldn't have tried to inflict upon him first, given the opportunity. (You Holmes critics on ESB Classic must love the fact that Frank's final NJ Title defense came against Eddie Mallard!:rofl)

 

..Dempsey and Bill 12etc.....with your vision and ability to rationalize you'd make good Las Vegas judges.

As for Ali, Holyfield, John L. Sullivan...whoever....my post was about Marciano and no others. I didn't say he was the only dirty fighter. Plus, the fact that others were dirty doesn't make Marciano a clean one.


RE; the decision in Charles/Marciano I....I idolize the first and dislike the second named here, but the verdict in favor of Marciano was clearly the correct one.

 

No, that would be me. (Even Bill thinks I go too far in my praise of Holmes!)

 

Thank you ass hole. :smooch I never said Marciano-Charles was the wrong decision. Marciano wasn't as dirty as you make him sound. Sure he worked an elbow in here and there, or went low a little, but all in all, there have been far dirtier.

 

Didn't a Charles elbow split Rocky's nose? I'll always say Marciano hit with elbows, but not intentionally.... the same can be said of Charles, or anybody else that missed with a punch.

 

If I recall right he went a little south against Foreman and Young. It looked like 1 or 2 were borderline against Lyle.