The Six Reasons Why I Dislike Heavyweight Boxing

WHY I DISLIKE HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING



1.Compared to lower weight classes, heavyweight boxing is more about size.

This may not have been the case to the same extent in the past, but the last 10-20 years have emphasized how important size is in the heavyweight division. Since Riddick Bowe used his size advantages to become the first man to stop Evander Holyfield and win their trilogy, guys with huge size advantages have ruled the heavyweight class. In the 1970s and 1980s, there was not a substantial weight difference between the top fighters (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes). Now we have guys who dwarf the competition in terms of weight, height and reach. Lennox Lewis used his size advantages to fight very cautiously (some would say cautious to the point of negative and boring) yet successfully against smaller men like David Tua and Evander Holyfield. Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko have taken this tactic to a whole new level in the 2000s. Lewis seemed to use his size to fight cautiously when he felt his opponent was a genuine threat (like Tua or Holyfield), but he could fight aggressively and go for a devastating early finish when he felt it was possible (Golota, Grant). Wladimir and Vitali seem to fight every fight now like Lewis did vs Tua and Holyfield – using their size advantage to the fullest, fighting extremely safely, fighting from distance behind a ramrod jab and a strong guard. Wladimir’s over-caution has produced some of the most appalling heavyweight “fights” in history (Ibragimov, Rahman, Chambers), and Vitali seems to be a different fighter since his return from injury. The bloody warrior who punched it out with Lennox Lewis is no longer, instead replaced by a slightly more aggressive but equally robotic version of Wladimir, as his slow, dull, painful dissections of much smaller guys like Gomez, Sosnowski, and Kevin Johnson would testify. The ‘next best’ fighters in the heavyweight class right now are David Haye (a former cruiserweight champ) and Tomasz Adamek (a former lightheavyweight champ). Both mens’ optimum fighting weight is now around 215-220lbs, and both are significantly shorter than either Klitschko. A guy with the height, reach and weight of a Lewis or a Klitschko and the athleticism required to be a top class boxer seems to only come around once in a generation. It seems the heavyweight division is doomed to a future of Lewis vs Tua, Wladimir vs Ibragimov, and Vitali vs Kevin Johnson, where the huge champions use their insane size advantages to ensure dull, easy victories, and this is one of the main reasons why I do not enjoy heavyweight boxing. If a middleweight could fight a lightweight, or if a lightweight could fight a bantamweight, those fights would be boring and one-sided as well. But those fights can’t happen. By ensuring that fighters must fight guys in the same weight range as themselves, the lower divisions ensure fairer and more competitive fights.


2.Compared to lower weight classes, heavyweight boxing is less about skills.

If you look at the best fighters of the past 20 years or so, how many have been heavyweights? In terms of ability, only Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis in my opinion. And even then, Holyfield was in my opinion more effective at cruiserweight than he was at heavyweight. Bowe didn’t really do enough to prove his worth, outside of two wins over a much smaller and lighter man. Wladimir and Vitali have not beaten one prime proven top-class heavyweight between them, and their skillsets are very basic, focused more around size and safety than well-rounded skills. Both guys are extremely effective, but this is not the same thing as having great skills. When you want to watch some great boxing skills from the last 20 years, you watch Whitaker, Jones, Hopkins, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Barrera, Marquez, and many more from light-heavy down to Ricardo Lopez at straw (cruiser has also been a wasteland in terms of skilled boxers IMO). These guys had speed, stamina, combination punching ability, defence, footwork, and so on. Which heavyweight from the last 20 years has been a great combination puncher? Tyson and Holyfield. Which heavyweight from the last 20 years had a great defence? You could argue Tyson, but he wasn’t a virtuoso defensive fighter like a Sweet Pea or a James Toney. Obviously Lewis and the Klitschkos were hard to hit, but again this was through using size advantages, it was not because of a mastery of the defensive art. Many heavyweights become successful and get title shots purely because they can punch, even if there is very little else to their game. This does not happen to anywhere near the same extent in other divisions. I actually really liked Michael Moorer’s skillset as a heavyweight fighter, but he did not have a very successful career there, because of his size. If you look at the number of title fights that have been contested in the past decade by Samuel Peter and/or Nikolay Valuev, this gives an indication of how atrocious this division has been in terms of quality.


3.Heavyweight boxing produces less great fights.

In the past, there was the sheer excitement of Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman and Mike Tyson. There was heavyweight artistry in the form of Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes. All of these guys produced great heavyweight fights. However, the number of great heavyweight fights has nosedived in the past 20 years. There was a purple patch in the early-mid 90s, mostly on account of Evander Holyfield (and Tua-Ibeabuchi was a great fight too), but the whole decade just past has been nothing short of diabolical. The only enjoyable heavyweight fight I can think of from the 2000s was Lewis-Klitschko, which was stopped on cuts. That aside, there has been huge men beating much smaller men in soporific mismatches (example Wladimir-Chambers, Vitali-Gomez), there has been huge men beating a succession of very very poor challengers (example Wlad-Tony Thompson and Vitali-Sosnowski), and there have been two mediocrities boring us to near death (John Ruiz vs just about everyone, Nikolay Valuev vs just about everyone). I don’t think there has been a single heavyweight fight outside of Lewis-Klitschko which would make it into the top 50 fights of 2000-2010, and that is extreme under-representation for one of the traditional weight classes.


4.Great fights don’t get made as easily in the heavyweight division.

For whatever reason, this seems to be the case. It could be that the top fighters make enough money making mandatory title defences to not bother risking it all on a dangerous opponent, but over the last 20 years fights have definitely been harder to make in the heavyweight division. Lewis and Holyfield were active in the same echelons of the same weight class from the beginning of the 90s. When did they fight? 1999. Lewis and Tyson were active in the same echelons of the same weight class from the mid 90s. When did they fight? 2002. Lewis and Bowe were active in the same echelons of the same weight class from the beginning of the 90s. When did they fight? Never. Now David Haye is the WBA champion, and a fight with either Klitschko doesn’t appear to be happening at all. In the last year or so in boxing, Manny Pacquiao has fought Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather has fought Shane Mosley, the Super Six is in full swing in the super-middleweight division, and Pavlik, Martinez and Williams have battled it out in the middleweight division. Wladimir has beaten Eddie Chambers, and Vitali has gone from fighting one joke to another (Sosnowski and soon Shannon Briggs), and the less said about Haye vs Harrison the better.


5.Fighters often come to the ring in dreadful physical shape, short-changing the fans

This is a real, personal dislike of mine. Heavyweight fighters who think it is acceptable to waddle down to the ring a fat ******* just because they can. When I see guys like Cris Arreola or Sam Peter talking in interviews about how they are serious fighters, I feel like throwing something at the TV. These imbeciles seem to think that because they can swing their fat arms with decent pop behind it, they are going to be able to defeat world-class professional athletes like the Klitschkos. It’s a joke. No great heavyweight has ever came to the ring with saggy man-boobs and a heaving beer gut. I just cannot respect that, I cannot enjoy watching that perform. Boxing is a sport, and it demands dedication. The very idea that Cris Arreola or Sam Peter is allowed to now fight for a title once held by Joe Frazier makes my stomach turn. These guys show extreme disregard for the fans by turning up fat, because they are not in prime condition to perform effectively, and inevitably lose and lose without mustering much resistance. Guys like Pacquiao, Mayweather, Hopkins, Ward, Martinez, Wonjongkam etc must watch the heavyweight division on TV and think it’s some sort of freak show, like a Japanese game show. Those guys have dedicated their lives to boxing excellence, and a sad blob like Sam Peter gets to fight for a title in the same sport? It must be a joke.

 

6.The heavyweight division is extremely weak and has no depth.

Another key reason. Vitali Klitschko is either the first or second most prominent champion in the heavyweight division, depending on your personal preference. In his last two WBC defences (a title which he won from Samuel Peter), he has fought Kevin Johnson and Albert Sosnowski, and for his next defence he will fight Shannon Briggs. In David Haye’s next WBA title defence (a title which he won from Nikolay Valuev), he will fight Audley Harrison. A quick look at the credentials of these major world title challengers...

Briggs: Since losing a UD to Sultan Ibragimov in ’07, the 38 year old has fought Marcus McGee (22-17, lost 3 of last 6), Rafael Pedro (20-8-1, lost 5 of last 6), Dominique Alexander (19-8-1, lost 4 of last 6), and Rob Calloway (70-11-2, lost 3 of last 4). So, Briggs has got a title shot on the back of wins over a group of guys who have collectively lost 15 of their last 22 fights.

Harrison: Beaten by Danny Williams in a Commonwealth title shot. Knocked out in 3 by Michael Sprott (29-10) in a European title shot. Was way down on the scorecards when he stopped Sprott in a rematch for the vacant European title 3 years later (Sprott’s record by this time was 32-14). If you disregard the “Prizefighter” tournament, Harrison has lost 4 of his last 9 (though one of those wins was against a guy with an 11-12-2 record). Has never beaten anyone ranked in the world’s top 10. Now 38.

Can you imagine the reaction if Chad Dawson or Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao or Timothy Bradley announced their next fight was going to be against a guy who has been creaming guys with more losses than wins over their last 6 fights, or a guy who has himself lost 4 of his last 9 championship distance fights?

There would be a public outcry. Yet because the heavyweight division is so shallow and so poor in terms of quality, Briggs and Harrison are now viewed as acceptable world title contenders. It is beyond depressing.





What has been the point of all of this? Well, to vent my frustration and disappointment at how this division has slid into the doldrums. I do have constructive thoughts on how the division could be improved, but they will never come to fruition so it would be futile detailing them. Plus I don’t even really have that much enthusiasm for improving the heavyweight class, I just don’t like it at all, there’s far too much emphasis on size and power, I don’t think it’s real boxing at all. Real boxing is about skill and craft and preparation, not bulk. Maybe in the past heavyweight boxing had this (Jersey Joe Walcott and Joe Frazier are two I like especially in terms of skillset), but no longer. People say guys like Andre Dirrell are boring, but I’d watch Dirrell before I’d watch Wladimir any day of the week. Watching someone do the same punches in sequence over and over and over again until his tiny opponent has been prodded into submission just isn’t boxing to me. OK, that’s enough, I’m bailing out here.


:bbb

 

There was bound to be at least one ****wit on the first page...

Ali did not have anywhere near the same physical advantages in the majority of his fights that Lewis, Wladimir and Vitali had. It was a more level playing field back then, for 100% certainty.

Claim: Validated

Nope.

Not here I don't. Point#2 was nothing to do with depth. Re-read.

Nope.

George Foreman did not take a title from any of those guys. The only one of those guys he fought, Holyfield, beat him handily.

The longest Byrd held a title for was 4 years, 2002-2006, which is in the Klitschko era, considering Lewis retired in '03 and Holyfield had his last winning world title fight in 2000.

How does this help your argument exactly? :huh

I don't see the point of this comment at all. Your argument is poorly-constructed and ill-informed.

Exactly my point. Thanks for agreeing with me. The heavyweight division does produce less exciting fights.

Nope. Not as easily as they are in other divisions. I have given accurate examples of this.

Floyd Mayweather fought Shane Mosley in his last fight. In recent years he has faced Oscar De La Hoya and Zab Judah. In his career he has fought Jose Luis Castillo and Diego Corrales.

Manny Pacquiao fought Miguel Cotto less than a year ago. In recent years he has faced Juan Manuel Marquez and Ricky Hatton. In his career he has fought Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales.

Wladimir Klitschko has recently fought Eddie Chambers and Hasim Rahman. In his career, his best wins include Chagaev, Byrd and Peter.


Do not compare Wladimir's resume to that of Pacquiao or Mayweather, because you will end up looking more idiotic than you already do.


And Pacquiao won't fight Guzman?
Mayweather won't fight Margarito?

Dire.

Samuel Peter is one of the worst offenders, and one of two I mentioned, and he is not American.

Can you actually read?? :nut I am from the UK, you moron. I couldn't give a flying **** where any fighter is from. My favourite fighters of all-time are Roberto Duran (Panama) and Manny Pacquiao (Philippines). When I criticize Floyd Mayweather for ducking fights, the General Forum concludes I hate black Americans. When I say James Toney would have beaten Joe Calzaghe, the General Forum says I hate British fighters. Does it ever occur to you imbeciles that someone can hold a strong opinion which is not borne out of some sinister agenda??? :huh

I'm not. I have no American relatives, I've never been to America, I have no affection whatsoever for America, nor do I have any ill feeling towards the place. I like some American things, I dislike others.

I don't. I have never cared where any fighters were from, I never will. I am from the UK, and none of my favourite fighters are from the UK, because nationality is not a factor for me.

None of this has any relevance to me at all, none of it factors into my thoughts and decisions in any way.

What does this have to do with ANYTHING???

I did not make any point which said: "OLDER HEAVYWEIGHTS WOULD DESTROY THE CURRENT HEAVYWEIGHTS" - did I???

I do think that Tyson would beat Wladimir for sure, but that is not important to me, and that's why I didn't mention this in my thread-starting posts.

Not really. Just someone who thinks differently to you, genius. :good

 

But before you get on to how "stupid" it is, why not try actually answering the question that I asked?

Answer that question in your response. Can you imagine that happening? Yes or no?

Only people who don't know Glen Johnson as a fighter and don't know Glen Johnson's career throw up the losses when he is mentioned. From 2004 onwards and at light-heavyweight, Glen Johnson has been an excellent fighter. He gave Dawson an extremely difficult fight first time round, when both men were in the top 5 of that weight class. Dawson outclassed him next time, and Johnson went on to knock out a top 10 ranked contender in his next fight and secure another title shot in the process.

Dawson vs Pascal is one of the fights of the year. Chad is stepping up his level of comp now he has cleared the decks of the best fighters of the generation before him. He has accomplished a lot for his age.

Would he now fight a guy like Briggs who has been feasting on absolute bums, or a guy like Harrison who has lost 4 of his last 9 serious fights?

Here's my answer...

I think Mayweather is ducking Pacquiao, but it doesn't change the fact he is coming off a win over Mosley, and that he has a deep resume. He has fought and beat far better fighters than Wlad, no question.

Manny Pacquiao is up at welterweight seeking the biggest fight in history vs ATG Floyd Mayweather, but you would respect him more if he stayed at lightweight and fought Joan Guzman.


Glorious.

See above!

My post isn't about one guy and the last few months though, it's about the heavyweight division as a whole, especially over the last 20 years. Wlad may not be at fault for Haye and Povetkin, but his resume is pretty crap - but that's a side-issue anyway. The division is weak as hell, and that contributes every bit as much to Wlad's record as him allowing his brother to avenge his defeats does. I'm criticizing the division as much as I am criticizing Wlad, if not more. I am well aware that Haye pulled out of fighting Wlad, and not the other way around.

Seriously?

I don't really understand why you think this is a strong ten fights. :huh

The only win I rate much is Chagaev, who was a good fighter and got dominated. I've saw all of those guys fight, most of them numerous times. Some are decent (Byrd, Brewster), some are shite (Austin, Thompson, Rahman), and there us not a single top-class heavyweight among the lot IMO.

Sam Peter? I scored the 1st Toney fight for Toney, and Toney was a fat ancient impostor as a heavyweight. Peter was never anything more than an overweight mediocrity, I can't believe he was even competitive with Wlad to be honest.

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In terms of actual quality, that list is shocking, and yet these are the challengers for the number 1 heavyweight in the world.

Sorry dude, you've proved me right ten-fold there. :good