If BJ is a BJJ black belt, why does he not submit people off his back?

No, I know how bjj is used at high level. Does roger gracie fight in mma? no he does not. Pure bjj does not = MMa.

Wrong, everything is not basic, if that were true they'd teach everything at the white belt level :rofl

No, you see bjj fighters losing beacuse bjj is slowly becoming less and less useful, as recent fights are proving.

 

:rofl
you call me an idiot and you're the one that says everything is basic. :rofl

right! of course!! these fighters lost because they had 'off nights' not because their bjj wasn't as useful as they thought it was!

and some people are just better athletes

what does that matter? hughes pen 1? hughes pen 2 proves my point, so does hughs vs both teh gracies and frankie edgar vs bj pen. Frankie edgar is a PURPLE BELT and bj pen is one of the best bjj blackbelts out there and bj pen rarley did anything in guard. In the pure bjj world frankie wold've been done for easily, but in mma its a world of difference.

right, thanks for proving my point, someone with little to no bjj experience can destroy someone with tons of bjj experience.

a very basic submission, which is exactly what I've been saying in this entire thread, all you need are bjj basics cuz all of the mid-high level bjj is useless in mma, oh wait, you can't read and you don't respond to the actual ponits people make! atsch

The first time you've ever made sense in this thread.

:rofl im training in bjj and yet I engaging in a war against it, wow, you're very ignorant.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Roger-Gracie-19854
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5gqr0_sengoku-ii-roger-gracie-vs-yuki-kon_sport

 

its the basics that win u fights man it always has been. "Simple is beautiful"

 

Exactly, which is why mid-high level bjj is starting to get more and more useless as the sport evolves.

 

your confusing bj with bjj I think................

bj penn is getting more useless, but the arts of submission are as dangerous as they ever were.

I still see fighters get choked out with rear nakeds all the time toney succumbed to it, and couture is not even a great sub artist I think this will be his second submission off the top of my head.

remember that fedor got submitted just a couple months ago, and anderson silva would have got submitted too if he was reckless enough to do what fedor did:deal

this guy Travis fulton has the most armbar wins 29...... this guy. That should tell you everything you want to know.

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All of those submissions were basic submissions. Rear naked choke? c'mon, I knew that when I was like 9, arm triangle, basic, fedor sub, basic, arm bar, basic. All of that stuff thats happened recently is basic bjj subs. I am not saying bjj is useless in mma, I am saying that mid-high level bjj is useless in mma.

Here's even more evidence of what I am saying. The gogaplata, which is an advance submission, has only been successfully executed twice, in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF PRIDE!

 

the topic was supposed to be about bj penn.

now of course it is about the overall strenght of submission arts and how they are becoming useless.

I thought wrestlers strengths were against strikers?

next it will be how punching is useless.

 

but that only makes sense that high level submissions are difficult to pull off so they have a smaller chance of success.

all highly competitive sports use basic technequs as their bread and butter.

look at boxing jab, right hand, left hook. thats all a guy like wlad uses sometimes he doesent even use the right hand till the middle rounds- and he is the top heavy in boxing.

thats what makes the guys who can throw 10 punch combos tripple left hooks to the body and head, and ko their opponents with them. It is what makes the roy jones's manny paquaio's, sugar ray robinsons and ray leonards so popular. it is what makes willy pep and floyd mayweather special, if everyone could do it, it wouldnt be so speacial would it.

think about risk vs reward:deal

 

I fixed it for you.

 

my point exactly. Its not jsut submissions either, its transitions and sweeps as well.

Not true, james toney, bernard hopkins, roy jones, anderson silva are great examples of people using something other than basic techniques.

Sure, there are people that will use the basics, there are also people that use high level techniques, like the people I mentinoed above. Now why aren't there bjj practitioners that use high level techniques consistently? toney and roy and mayweather use their high level techniques consistently, so why aren't bjj practitioners out tehre using high level techniques consistently?

Roy had high level technique, as did toney with his shoulder roll 'mongoose' style. Now where are the roy jones and james toneys of bjj?

 

ok, so accordig to you mid level submission do not work, only armbars guilitines, rearnaked chokes, arm triangles, kimuras, heel hooks, kneebars and triangle chokes are usebale correct?

 

No b/c part of training any sport isn't just knowing the moves, it's knowing the situation & being able to react almost instinctively.

A double-leg takedown is as basic a move as a triangle choke, but you wouldn't say that having a high-level wrestling background doesn't make your basic double-leg takedown more effective.

A high-level BJJ makes your basic moves more effective b/c you snap them in quicker, realize how to adjust them, transition to a complimentary move or better position w/o letting go of the choke, etc.

To put it a different way: low level BJJ means you wait until you & your opponent are in the perfect position to snap the choke/lock in. high level BJJ means that create & exploit openings to "force" the choke/lock & adjust to secure it.

 

agreed

now what do you say Theologicaldisc

 

You can practice basic level moves all you want, you can drill them to near perfection, but in the end, you still have nothing but basic level moves. The reason high level people can do basic moves so well is because they constantly drill them, but in the end theyre still basic moves. You don't need to be high level bjj to make the basic moves more effective, just gotta drill them.