Greb vs Louis. What type of chance does Greb have?

This thread seems to be generating more heat than light, unfortunately, but I came across this article in Sports Illustrated, March 27, 1967--"Blood, Sweat, Toil, but no tears from Tunney"---by James R Fair

"From time to time a particularly rough heavyweight fight puts the stigma of brutality on the sport of boxing. But to those of us who watched Harry Greb of Pittsburgh beat a youngster named Gene Tunney for the light-heavyweight championship of the US back in 1922, no heavyweight fight since has seemed more than a schoolyard spat. It was certainly the bloodiest fight of my time (and I go back to 1912) and maybe the bloodiest since the Romans fought with a cestus."

"Harry Keck asked Greb that night if Tunney had hurt him any time during the fight.

"'Hell yes," said Greb. "He hurt me in damn near every round---and him bleeding the way he was. Don't let anyone tell you he's just a counterpunching boxer who can't hurt you. He's the most punishing and most accurate hitter I ever fought. If you don't take the fight to him he'll take it to you, and any move you make is usually the wrong one. You end up catching a left in the puss and a stinging straight right to the body. I couldn't keep away from that right.'"

"Greb admitted that in two trips to the toilet since leaving the Garden, he had passed blood in his urine. 'That's the first time that ever happened to me,' the fighter said. 'and I've been belted in the body by the hardest punchers in the business. Also you may noticed I'm not ordering no steak tonight. That's because my face stopped so many lefts and right crosses it feels like somebody's been hitting it with a sledge hammer. I'll bet I never really hurt Gene at all. I just bloodied him, and the loss of blood weakened him."

*That is Greb quoted on the first fight.

Fair also quotes him on the last Tunney fight:

"A week or so following his last Tunney fight, Greb was having a drink with friends in the Times Square area.

'I'm through fighting Gene,' he said quietly. 'He's too tough, hits too hard and knows what moves I'm going to make before I do.' He glanced around the speakeasy to be sure no outsider was listening. 'He was killing me in St Paul,' he confided. 'I knew I couldn't stay the 10 round distance, and I didn't want to be knocked out or have the referee stop it, so I asked him in a clinch to take it easy. "Sure, Harry," he said. "Stay in close and grab and hold and I won't hurt you." I knew I could trust him and he knew I wasn't playing possum.'"

 

"If you are a gambler"

If I am the gambler, I don't put money on a guy who was bested twice. If Greb won this fight as easily as you claim, he should have been the favorite, not a solid underdog.

 

I'm gonna have to get some kind of confirmation on that one.

 

Well, Tunney wrote the same in his autobiography. I wouldn't put all that much stock in Tunney claiming this, but Fair writing it means something more. The Sport's Illustrated Archive has this complete article. Just type in Harry Greb.

 

Fair enough. Like I posted, the original complete article is available online at the Sport's Illustrated Archive.

 

i dunno about playing possum but in the Tunney book i have Greb apparently admitted he wasnt a match for Tunney anymore.

 

Agreed, and were it true, whoever gave out that info would have to be a bit of a scumbag, no? Considering Greb confided in him as a friend only to have his words posted for all to see.

That said, it does reek of bull****. How would one go about quoting that in the first place? Was Fair among his friends he confided in at the pub? I don't think it holds any water.

 

So now we are quoting James Fair? The guy who was sued for falsifying his book on Greb which was pulled from shelves by its publisher... Way to go Old Fogey... you are doing a bang up job on research, Im sure you are one mouse click away from finding another flawed source to support your argument. Ever try actually getting a library card and doing your research rather than piggy back on the internet?

For a guy who was so sure he couldnt go the ten round distance with Tunney after their last fight (which doesnt even have a bearing on the outcome of the second) why did Greb agree to face Tunney in early 1926 in Miami only to have Tunney opt out in favor of fighting Young Stribling, and then opt out of that in favor of waiting for a shot at Dempsey.

The more you post the more your ignorance and bias on the subject shine through, so by all means, keep posting.

 

Fair was a renowned liar who made his name writing fictional stories about Greb based on a supposed friendship he had with Harry. It was all made up. If Harry knew Fair (and that is a monumental "IF") it was only in passing. After Fair published his book on Greb every one from friends, family, former opponents, and sparring partners came out of the woodwork to denounce it as a work of fiction. The family began legal proceedings and the book was pulled from shelves by its publisher to avoid a lawsuit. That's Old Fogey's source.

 

That's what I figured. This debate has been over with for a while now, if you ask me, but it's still fun to read.

 

I guess his dying wife didnt have anything better to do than be quoted by the press and lie making up a story like that...:-(

 

I am just quoting the article in Sports Illustrated. I have no idea if it is correct. I do know that you can not libel the dead, so who sued him?

Give Him to the Angels, the Story of Harry Greb was published in 1946. It can still be purchased for $55.

A lot of people might not have liked what he said, and he wouldn't be the first would be author who was a little too full of himself, but if Fair has no credibility, why would a major publication such as Sports Illustrated publish an article by him on the same subject in 1967?

 

A dying woman was answering the phone? No one else about? Why wasn't she in a sanitarium?

 

Does she have to be in a sanitarium to be dying? She cant answer her own phone if shes dying? Let me guess, unless the new york times reported on it she didnt even die did she? I think I'll take her word over yours...