No, once again, this simply proves your slavish devotion to only that information you can readily find on the net. If you dig through your collection Im sure you will find the first issue of Ring magazine which pictured actual fighters shows Jack Dempsey, Jack McAuliffe, and the Nonpareil. You simply looked in the Ring archive on Wikipedia (the same place you dug up information on Walker and quoted almost word for word) for cover photos and neglected to take note of the fact that they dont have their March 1922 issue pictured... Nice try. And no, Ring Magazine did NOT start awarding fighter of the year until 1928. Open up any issue of the Ring Almanac and you will see when that title begins to run in 1928 with Gene Tunney. Once again, you simply looked up fighter of the year on Wikipedia, which itself notes that this began in 1928. If you or anyone else can show me an actual Ring Magazine from 1922 or 1923 awarding Greb the fighter of the year for 1922 I would gladly eat my words.
1. You are right about the covers. I misquoted the article I read which pointed out that Greb was the first boxer to have a Ring magazine cover all to himself in April of 1923. My mistake. But as the issue was Nat Fleischer's alleged trashing of Greb, April is early enough for me. 2. Fighter of the year--In the fifties, Dan Daniel printed lists taking the fighter of the year, fight of the year, and upset of the year back to 1922. Look it up. Below will be another article for you to trash:
Ring Magazine--November 1952, pages 19 & 48, by Wilbur Wood "Bagley did not see eye to eye with Tunney as to the wisdom of getting another match with Greb. He advised a long rest for Gene to recover from the beating, next a series of bouts with lesser opponents and then possibly, after Gene's confidence had been rebuilt, another engagement with Greb "Tunney could not see it Bagley's way. Gene wanted that return bout, and fast. They disagreed so completely that it wound up with Tunney purchasing his contract from Bagley for $5,000 and putting himself under the management of Billy Gibson, who also handled the affairs of Benny Leonard. That was the worst financial mistake Bagley, or possibly any other manager ever made. "Gene was rematched with Harry and they met in the Garden on February 23, 1923. Those who saw that fight will never forget it. This time Gene, as he had said, knew how to fight the rushing Greb. He did not try to box with him with him on orthodox lines, but stepped in to meet his rushes, using with deadly effect a right to the body that took some of the steam out of the usually irrepressible Greb. "This was one of the most savage fights in the history of Madison Square Garden with no quarter asked or given by either gladiator. It was a close fight as well as a savage one, with some in the crowd holding the unanimous decision by which Gene regained the American Lightheavyweight championship was unjust to the Pittsburgher. But to most it seemed fair enough." I posted this for those who might want to read it.
fogey More precise to count what Wood said the morning after and count him as one opinion of the many presented to you from myself and Klompton.
Woods goes on in this article to write about Greb before the Tunney-Dempsey fight: "I recall that one afternoon some days before the fight I was walking down the board walk when I ran into my old friend Greb, who was getting ready for an eye operation. One of Harry's eyes was very bad but it turned out that he could see much more with one eye than most of us could with two. "'Who are you picking,' said Greb, a bit ungrammatically, it is true. "How can you pick anyone but Dempsey,' came back this writer, question for question. 'Jack will knock him out.' Greb let out a loud snort of disgust. 'You writers are all alike,' he exclaimed. 'You can't see anything but Dempsey. Say, you want to get a rep for being smart. Pick Tunney, and you can't miss.' It was my turn to snort. 'Now I know you are punchdrunk,' I said. 'You sure are batty. What are you trying to do, kid somebody?' 'You are the one that's doing the kidding and you're kidding yourself,' Greb came back. 'Please listen to me. Don't make a fool of yourself. Dempsey will be lucky to win a round. I know because I have worked with Dempsey and I boxed Tunney twice. Tunney has just the stuff to beat Dempsey and do it all the way. If Dempsey beats him it will be an accident.' Of course I didn't listen to those wise words. I went out on a limb for Dempsey. After three rounds of the fight I was wondering if what I saw really was happening." **posted for those who might find this interesting. I did, as the writer does directly quote Greb on his view of both Dempsey and Tunney.
I posted it for anyone who might want to read it. No matter what, his opinion in 1952 is of interest to me. By the way, is that one of the posts in which you fellows lumped draws with those who thought Greb won to jimmy statistics in an effort to prove the fight was one-sided. When I score a fight a draw, I consider it to have been close. For example, that Tribune ringside poll. Accepting the statistics given on this thread, rather than Cavanaugh's, (who had it 4-4-5) it was 3 for Tunney, 5 for Greb, and 5 draws. The draws were lumped with Greb's total to make I guess a somewhat valid point that 10 out of 13 did not vote for Tunney. It is equally true that 8 out of 13 did not vote Greb the winner. Sounds like the majority saw a close fight.
I outgrew this stuff when I was about sixteen. Most adults do. My wife, children, and grandchildren will be amused.
By the fith and final encounter between them in 1925 no doubt about it Greb is recognizing Genes growing into a monster. However the 4th and 2rd encounters 1924 Cleveland 1923 MSG the argument of over the hill Harry winning both is very strong and that's what has folks like Klompton and myself so impressed.
You should be impressed. Greb was a great fighter and to take on a bigger man such as Tunney, beat him once decisively, with two of the other fights close enough that many, and perhaps most, thought he won, IS impressive--one of the most impressive feats in boxing history. *Just as an aside, I am far more a Greb fan than a Tunney fan, or a Conn fan, but they were significantly bigger men and in the end beat better heavyweights (Dempsey and Pastor) than I think Greb did. I consider Tunney a lightheavyweight when Greb fought him.
Fair point. But as he didn't actually fight Dempsey, I, at least, can't give him credit for doing what Tunney in fact did.
Did you know Jack Sharkey said this guy was the greatest i ever fought....a heavyweight Greb beat the daylights out of...
