What was it exactly and was it legal to put it on a fighters body between rounds? Was it common? Do you know other examples?
Dundee said that he took a little of that substance from Clay's eye and put it inside his and it burned like hell so I don't think that it was massage oil.
You're asking about a question during a time in which "fight doctors" were slowly becoming more credited. As mentioned by Dundee, "fight doctors" were performing extremely "horrorshow" skills on keeping fighters together. Things that a regular doc wouldn't even fathom doing today. This was truly nasty in the 1930s (I'm sorry I'm in too much of a hurry for examples right now) and began to tail off during the rise of Cassius Clay. These horrible tactics continued however, in the case of Panama Lewis and the black bottle incident in the 1980s (still not nearly as bad as early days). So to answer your question, it could have been something common, but this was during an age where "the edge" was something worth attaining regardless of a lack of info, provide the benefit (sweep the side effect under the rug), and give your fighter that added boost. In the case of Liston this was probably some rubbing linement used to relax old muscles and it also happened to burn when it got in someone's eyes. He was a mean old man that wanted nothing to do with the crazy Ali, so I can easily imagine him having that done to help keep Ali away from him.
Thanks Briscoe for your post, it's very interesting. But I don't agree with this: Liston was preparing for a 4 round fight so I don't think that he and his camp have prepare this wunderwaffe escpecially for him. I never heard that anyone of Listons oponents had sight problems like Ali before so I don't think that it was done or purpose. But I heard that cornerman had this substance with him "just in case" because Liston had some injury that didn't seemed to be very serious and they didn't want to postpone the fight.
threre is a lot of stuff illegal now that wasnt illegal then. even now there is a lot of stuff that is legal that can sting your eyes once it is mixed with sweat and runs down the forehead. even now There is no law on what a fighter can put in his hair yet we have all seen sponges, ice packs etc rested on the hair where whatever is in the hair will run down the face and into the eyes mixing with the water. as for liston it proberbly was some "deep heat" rubbed into his shoulder. I often wonder though how it did not find its way into listons eyes, he was bleading after all. years later ali told of an old italian guy that was conected to listons camp in 64' who tried to sell him the stuff he was blinded with in miami to help him against foreman in 74'.
I am sourceless but I have read on this forum that several other of Liston's opponents had complained about mysterious random vision trouble along the lines of something in their eyes, as opposed to caused by injury. I wish I could remember which ones.
it was in an interveiw in england that was televised. at about 2.11 ali explains the whole story about the gangster with the ointment. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnqLn0R1Rq4[/ame]
I'm not saying that this isn't true, but I didn't heard any of that kind of stuff earlier. Maybe if you will remember the names of fighters that had those vision problems, we could find out something new
I'm on this forum too much to remember a half a percent of the stuff I read, damn it. I suppose me barely remembering somebody with no sources helps you in absolutely no way, but truthfully...didn't think about that before I mentioned it.
I'm aware Liston wasn't mean all of the time, but he did have something against Ali in which he thought he was crazy. I've been reading a lot of articles about the Ali-Liston II fight, and he and Jersey Joe mentioned they were afraid that Ali would kick Liston in the head. I can just imagine him, knowing this rubbing liniment (specifically meant for his muscles) was on his shoulders and that if it gets in his eyes, it'll burn like hell. The intent was for his older physical structure, the added bonus was that it burns. I'll have to re-watch the Ali-Liston I fight...
"In their first fight, Williams claimed that Liston's camp applied a caustic substance on Liston's gloves --- reminiscent of claims made by Ali in the first Liston-Clay encounter --- which burned Williams' eyes prior to Liston knocking out the Cat in the 3rd round. Williams broke Liston's nose in this fight before Liston regrouped and ended the slugfest with a brutal onslaught. " http://boxinggreats.multiply.com/notes/item/356
Yes, the dangerous Cleveland Williams complained of blurred vision from an ointment during their memorable fights
There's an allegation that Liston cut man Joe Polino (sp: Palino? Pollino?) used Monsel's solution ( [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferric_subsulfate_solution[/ame] ) to treat Sonny, and this is what supposedly blinded Ali.
