P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

1. ray robinson
2. muhammad ali
3. sugar ray leonard
4. roberto duran
5. salvador sanchez
6. thomas hearns
7. roy jones junior
8. pernell whittaker
9. marvin hagler
10. evander holyfield

I dont rank older boxers simply because i dont think they have the techincal or physical attributes that the modern day fighters pocess

 

sounds good to me and your list looks ok apart from holyfield

 

can i ask why? who would you replace him with?

 

ezzard charles for one.

 

So if Maxim, a big light heavyweight by the era's standards, doesn't make top 10 at light heavyweight, then how does he make the pound for pound list? For his accomplishments at heavyweight?

A 30+ year old Robinson was pitching a shutout until running out of gas against the far bigger man under extreme heat.

Robinson admitted that Charles would have been too big and good for him, but that Maxim was a far easier opponent as he couldn't punch.

Walcott won 2 out of 3, and the loss was arguably a robbery.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=4187,4680559&dq=walcott+maxim&hl=en

Bivins was washed up at the time, lost a SD to the hometown fighter. He also holds a win over Maxim, so they went 1-1. No one in their right mind would put Bivins in the top 10 p4p, even though he has an equally as impressive record as Maxim or even more so.

Charles beat Maxim 5 times from 1942 to 1951. If that isn't a decisive enough series then nothing is.

Maxim was still champ at the time he fought Moore, and was beaten 3 times against a man nearly 10 years older than he was.

In case of Maxim's biggest wins, not to downgrade him, but even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn every once in a while. He fought so many greats that he's bound to have a few wins over them, he was a very, very good fighter himself, but he mostly came up with losses and never with decisive wins. The series with Moore and Charles show that he is short of ATG status, both at light heavyweight and especially pound for pound. His greatest claim to fame is a win over a former welterweight, who as I said was winning nearly every round up to that point.

 

You're applying your own meanings to these words. Greatest or best P4P can have whatever criteria you want when applying them. I see what you're trying to say, but I don't see how best doesn't mean resume included while greatest does. Like these words don't bring these known distinction between the words. Like why can't greatest P4P fighters be the greatest fighters you ever saw/read about P4P... there is no wrong criteria.

 

Interesting and bizarre.

 

I'm not saying what is wrong or right. I just said it would be easier for me to say who i think are the best rather than the greatest, notice the word

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, so i don't see the problem tbh. But if i'm being honest, i don't know why we're still discussing it really, not to be rude or anything with that comment, but what i said in my last post still stands the way i see it. Greatness for me refers more to achievements whereas being good or the best is simply concerned with how good you are, hence my Willie Pep remark earlier.

 

What i was getting at when i originally posted was this (notice i said that who i consider the best would ultimately be based on specualtion/opinion, because it's just something i can't see past when i watch them box/fight, and therefore i could be criticised without being able to justify my picks with a criterium, because it would simply be opinion)- from me viewing footage, Sugar Ray Robinson. Muhammad Ali and Roberto Duran are the best fighters ever, after that you've got others like Pep etc. Now i couldn't jsut throw a list of ten fighrers out on that basis because it just wouldn't be right the way i see it. For me to focus this p4p list on objectivity, meaning resumes and accomplishments, then i'd be needing to research more deep into the resumes of the likes of Jimmy McLarnin, Jack Britton, Harada, Marshall, and i haven't done that yet. That's all i meant, i don't want to rush an opinionated list rather than make an objective one. I wasn't attacking anyone's principles, just expressing that i need time to do this.

 

The interesting point here is the high ranking of Packey McFarland.

 

Fair enough.

Ok, I think I get you now. I was about to ask you where you got best and greatest from since Rumsfeld just said top 10 P4P. But you take P4P as greatest.

 

:good sorry if any of that came across wrong man

 

I didnt say he doesnt make top 10, i said he didnt make top 10 the last time I thought about it. The fact is, and this is one of the things that most people dont understand, there have been so many great, great fighters, that there really is no such thing as a lock for top 10 positions in any list.

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A 30+ year old Robinson was pitching a shutout until running out of gas against the far bigger man under extreme heat.

 

1.) Sugar Ray Robinson
2.) Henry Armstrong
3.) Harry Greb
4.) Bob Fitzsimmons
5.) Roberto Duran
6.) Willie Pep
7.) Charley Burley
8.) Bennie Leonard
9.) Sam Langford
10.) Eder Jofre