How many of you think Overeem is now the best HW on the planet?

It's the start of the triangle that ends the fight.

What the hell do you mean there is no sweep? Care to explain Fedor being airborne? I mean I know he is skilled, but I don't think he can levitate.

Overeem gave up the first one, swept Fedor (had the fence not been there he probably would have landed on top), grabbed the arm a second time, and that is a wrap, nobody is getting out of that.

In the first attempted triangle, Fedor got his shoulder clear immediately, like he always does, and wasn't in any real danger.

The only difference between this and every other time Fedor GnP's is that Werdum removed his base at the same time the punch was coming in, that is why Fedor couldn't pull out the arm, why Werdum caught it so deep, and why nobody was getting out of the second one.

 

Fedor is the GOAT but Overeem beats him and anyone else in the HW division today. Overeem can still be hurt but his defense has improved a lot. If anything he isn't getting enough credit for what he is doing in K-1, and his ground game has always been solid.

 

The thread and the poll seem to be asking different questions.

H2H, I like Overeem over Fedor at this moment.

That doesn't necessarily mean Overeem is the best active HW, though...

Werdum has to be in that conversation...as do Barnett and now Velasquez, IMO.

 

The roll that Werdum did, is not a sweep. Not sure what you want to call it other than a roll but thats not a sweep.

To answer second part of your "sweep" argument. No. Werdum would NOT have landed on top of Fedor, in fact had the fence not stop Fedors right leg from basing out on that side, none of this would've happened. Hence difference between a roll and a sweep. If it was a "sweep" that you think of, Werdum would've had to block Fedors right foot from basing out because that's where Werdum was supposedly "sweeping" Fedor to. From what I remember you've done BJJ and you must understand the mechanics of taking the base out for a sweep to happen.

This was not it. This was a roll to face Fedor. Basically think Shogun vs Griffin, from what I remember Shogun did like 1million of those types of rolls. They are not sweeps. They are intended to change orientation of your legs. And not to "sweep" your opponent.

So, again, Werdum was trying to put his legs in front of Fedor, while Fedor was leaning OVER Werdums hips. Which resulted in Fedor being airborne.
The fence prevented Fedor from getting his base, not Werdum. As soon as Fedors right leg hits the fence he could no longer put the leg out there. I must emphasize the fact that Werdum had nothing to do with Fedors inability to base out to his right. And when Fedors side hit the fence he kind of slid right into the triangle of Werdum. I think at this point Fedor should have threw his hips forward as hard as he could to regain his base but he was still leaning forward and Werdum was able to throw the second leg over.

So yea, technically Fedor DID "slip and fall" into Werdum triangle.

 

Can anyone here post an intelligent list of arguments on how can Fedor still be considered THE BEST MMA HW IN THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD? :think

I've said it before I've always been a huge Fedor fan, but being as impartial as humanly possible I can't seem to place Fedor above Werdum or Overeem, and i'd even rank him equal to Velasquez. Fedor's last real opponent, in my opinion, was Coleman in 2006, so that's 4 years fighting opponents that aren't worth a champion like himself. And yet he's still considered by most the #1 HW in the world. I know for a fact that he's got the skills to beat anyone on the planet, but if he does not fight the best, logically he is supposed to go down the rankings, that's just the way it works.

Please try to enlighten me with logical, unbiased arguments. :good

 

I think Overeem is a ****ing beast in size, standing and grappling BUT I'm wondering what happens when someone fights back hard in MMA. To date he has the bully mentality. When in control, amazing BUT when things don't go his way he begins to fold mentally thus physically he falls apart.

His wins look awesome but his losses look questionable. He is on a roll at the moment.

 

Are you seriously trying to say Coleman was a better opponet then what Arlovski (who was coming off wins over Pay De Pano, Werdum, O'Brien, Rothwell and Nelson) or Sylvia who was a year removed from 2nd reign as UFC Heavyweight Champion.

 

People tend to work in hindsight with Fedor. That annoys me as a fan because Fedor can only fight those guys based on what he knows going into the fight.

People will bag on Rogers, Sylvia and Arlovski but they were good going into the fight with Fedor.

In reality it was 2007 that pissed everyone off because he fought a small guy and a freak show.

 

I think from Cro Cop until Sylvia they had every right. Fighting some 400 pound novice in Zulu, a 40 plus old part timer in Coleman who he already beat once, Middleweight Matt Lindland and of course the freak show Hong Man Choi was unacceptable. Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers was a good run **** hindsight as what happens after shouldnt mean a damn thing in most cases. Example I give Faber credit for whooping Pulver the 1st time despite Pulver losing 5 fights in a row afterwords. Going into that fight Pulver had just choked out Cub Swanson in like 30 secounds a quality fighter.

 

You're ignoring that Fedor had dropped him, why wouldn't he be able to catch him again with a better shot that left Werdum more stunned and more open to a sub from Fedor?

Are you saying that this Werdum would beat any Fedor? I'm only asking because you're saying this is what Fedor has always done, so in other words Fedor would always have got caught by this version of Werdum.

 

Fedor never needs to go to the ground with Werdum, at all really. There really isn't anything Werdum can do to force Fedor to the ground, so Fedor can just stay standing and force him to trade, the same way Silva has done..

I don't get how Werdum could beat Fedor again unless he again gets baited into a fight on the ground fight when Werdum really isn't buzzed..

Again, overspecialization breeds weakness. Werdum can only compete with Fedor on the ground. Can he manage to force him there? Or trick him there again?

 

:rofl wow - with comments like that i dont think its possible to enlighten you .

 

still put that in a simple question, what convinces you Fedor is still #1 HW as of 2010 rankings?

Werdum won, Arlovski was a struggle until the deadly punch, Rogers was a real pain until the same deadly punch and he'll never fight in the UFC. I dont think it's fair to say he's still #1 until he rematches Werdum or fights Overeem, and we'll just never know what a guy like Dos Santos would do against Fedor at this stage of his career.

I know the guy's great, but he ain't a god nor is he Chuck Norris, Fedor zombies are everywhere in MMA, he was easily #1 for a long time, but i don't think he is right now.