Why we overrate slick boxers when the ATG list are

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by chimba, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. HellSpawn86

    HellSpawn86 "My heart goes out to you!" Full Member

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    I personally disagree with this comment based on experience. Most people I meet who start out boxing are very defensive. It's much easier for them to learn how to circle around the ring, avoid punches and jab, because it is their natural instinct to not want to get hit.

    I think mastering a style such as Tyson or Chavez is much more difficult because you have to learn to come forward which requires a much more difficult type of defense to learn.

    Overall mastering any defensive or offensive movements and strategies in boxing is hard to do.
     
  2. sheet

    sheet Member Full Member

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    pacquiao is slick. just watching the margo fight (during the slow-mo replays) someone mentioned it to me. he doesn't get tagged as much as you think. his offense just overshadows that part of his game.
     
  3. Jetmax

    Jetmax Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Because just like in life, you are judged based on what you do for real. Not what you can do on paper.
     
  4. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    Being slick is rarer than having a good offense. No one makes it to the elite level without having a great offense, prizefighters need to hit their opponents to win fights. It's possible to become world class without a good defense like Cotto and marg.
     
  5. Seckah

    Seckah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I box and most of the men in my family have too. Learning how to fight defensive is one thing but being slick is different IMO.

    for example Clottey was defensive against Pac and Floyd was slick against Hatton.
     
  6. Seckah

    Seckah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Being slick is very rare and special. big punchers are great until they get expose.
    for example, Pavlik vs Hopkins
     
  7. HellSpawn86

    HellSpawn86 "My heart goes out to you!" Full Member

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    I think that has more to do with how high we set the bar. Cotto and Marg are no Whitaker or Mayweather when it comes to defense, but certainly they are no Chavez or Duran when it comes to offense.

    Cotto and Marg are actually not that easy to hit and have high connect percentages against most world class competitors. When fighting elite fighters at some point your defense isn't going to look as good and neither is your offense. Cotto and Marg do not have the reflexes or speed of most great defensive fighters so they have to rely more on their strength and breaking down fighters. However for offensive fighters I would not consider their cornering skills nearly as good as past greats.
     
  8. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    I know exactly what you mean. I think you get what I'm saying though.
     
  9. HellSpawn86

    HellSpawn86 "My heart goes out to you!" Full Member

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    Okay, I see what you are saying. I think that depends if someone naturally has the speed/reflexes for one, and two practicing it endlessly until it's instinct.

    Even that said, slick and brawling are not comparable skills. Brawling is reckless abandon, stalking is controlled aggression that takes just as much practice as being slick.
     
  10. Seckah

    Seckah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree:good
     
  11. Schmapps

    Schmapps Member Full Member

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    I think this would be a good question to ask the Classic Forum.
     
  12. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's the same reason people like to believe the girls they find the hottest **** the best. At the end of the day, most of us are shallow and like to project our favorite qualities in a fighter as being the best. Some go gaga for overly slick fighters, some do it for monster punchers, others go for cast-iron toughness. Meanwhile, there's been literally tons of examples where each style beats or "exposes" another- there is no one perfect style out there. It's all about personal choice- I don't rank Ali above Benny Leonard in a P4P list, but I know many do. Alot of these guys are so close together in accomplishment even at the top that personal bias and preference absolutely has to come in to play to separate them.

    As far as the toughest to implement effectively, I think for me, it's Jack Dempsey's style. Not only how he did it and how physically demanding it is, but for how long he was able to last with it. No heavyweight swarmer since has been able to have a career with so many fights with a similar style before burning out. By the same token, I also give Tyson a great deal of credit for the success he had with a similar style.
     
  13. Sweet Jones

    Sweet Jones Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This.

    It seems like being 'slick' has been reduced to being all movement/no pop like Cory Spinks or Chris Byrd.
     
  14. Gander Tasco

    Gander Tasco Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    some slick boxers are overratd ,not all. Floyd def gets overrated because he's undefeated. He's not as good as his fans make him out to be.
     
  15. xizor

    xizor Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i think you might be missing the crucial element about a defensive fighter, much to what was said earlier fundamentally boxing is hit and get hit. what makes a good defensive fighter/slick fighter great is + /- or his ability to hit with out getting hit. For example lets take mayweather who in the midst of shoulder rolling and blocking manages to slip a right hand in or even when he goes toe to toe in a more aggressive fight its still highly defensive. You have to watch his feet in these fights because
    1. he sets him self at the proper distance from his opponent
    2. he creates an illusion of an opening
    3. he places his feet in the correct position in relation to his opponents feet to find the right angle
    4. he stings with a one or two hit combo all the while keeping his hands up or not over extending him self so he can roll a punch off the shoulder.

    so even his offense is highly defensive. after a couple rounds of this fighters often either get frustrated or they start to play into Floyds hands.

    So the average person is going to try to do a block or try to move away instinctively but that is not good defense and often time in boxing you will see fights get stopped because of this instinctive reaction to guard your self and not fight back.
    I think Tyson defense was exciting, but you have to have Tyson like talent and speed to be able to do that and over all its not that effective because it only last for short burst like the first 3 rounds. he could not keep that pace over long fights.

    **Also Floyd was used as an example, i am not tiring to start a war over who is better between him and whoever. also i am just shooting the **** with fellow boxing enthusiast, much like they use to do in the barber shops. my opinion is just that an opinion and so far i respect every one elses opinion even if i do not agree with it. Bottom line boxing is the ****!**