Does Walcott do better against Ali than Marciano?

Walcott is one of the fighters I think could upset Ali. He has the left-hook, the feet and the skills. He would also force Ali to come to him.

I honestly think that Ali would need to stop him to win.

 

I don't know whether Walcott or Marciano would have done better against Ali. I know one good way to counter speed is to create hesitation, and Walcott was a master at that. Louis thought Walcott could have troubled Ali. Ali told Cosell that Marciano would have been the most difficult of his predecessors, and also cited Charles and Walcott as fellows he might have had problems with.

 

Those were my thoughts exactly, before even opening this thread. Walcott decked Marciano in round one, then proceded to lead on the cards until he was KO'd in round 13.. I can't see Joe doing any better against Muhammad, as you say.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8472193#post8472193

This content is protected

Comments after Jeffries-Corbett II, cited from Adam Pollack's 'In the Ring with James J Jeffries'

-----------

p.617 "Jeffries is a great fighter. He has strength and lots of science, and can make any fighter in the world look like 30 cents."
-- John L Sullivan

pp.616-617 "Corbett's excuse that Jeffries was too big for him will reasonably explain his defeat to his own satisfaction, but it is doubtful if the result would have been any different if there was parity of equality in their respective weights. Jeffries' fighting qualities would have offset any little advantage Corbett might have had in the matter of boxing skill, and it is the fighting ability which tells."
-- 'Police Gazette'

p.616 "It was not the Jeffries that fought Sharkey and Fitzsimmons ... The improvement in his style, speed and agility was simply marvelous."
-- Jimmy Britt

p. 615 "(Jeffries) never stood, as in other fights, stolidly in his place, doubled into a defensive crouch, but kept on the move with an agility that he never showed before ..."
-- Tom Corbett (Jim's brother)

p. 614 "George Siler said that unlike their first fight, Jeffries 'did not rush at him and swing wildly, but moved swifty toward him, measured his distance carefully, and did not attempt to hit unless Corbett was within distance."

p.614 "(Jeffries) clumsy leads were absent; his awkward efforts to set himself after missing were a thing of the past. In the year since he beat Bob Fitzsimmons ... he has added wonderful science to his enormous bulk and unbeatable strength. He could have acquired this knowledge in but one way -- from Bob Fitzsimmons, with whom he toured the country and boxed almost nightly.'
-- attribution not clear; I gather, from previous page, that this was from a local report

p. 612 "Jeffries showed wonderful improvement. He fought better and faster than he did when he met Fitzsimmons in this city (1902). He hit even harder and his blows had more direction ... Jeffries showed grand science and great hitting power. He boxed as well as Corbett and was strong as a lion ...
"I was not prepared to see Jeffries outbox Corbett. He lost none of his overwhelming strength by taking on the newly acquired quickness, and every blow told ..."
-- referee Eddie Graney

p. 609 "Jeffries suprised me. He has made wonderful improvement. I never saw him so fast. I am certain that he was not that quick when he fought Fitzsimmons. His footwork has improved and his hitting is cleaner. He did not employ his crouch in the manner that he did in our previous contest. ...
"... He is just as strong as he ever was, much cleverer and in the ring tonight his speed was a revelation to me."
-- James J Corbett

p. 613 "Before last night's encounter I thought a clever, strong man could beat him, but when he stepped into the ring and showed as much science as Corbett I was forced to take off my hat and acknowledge his superiority."
-- Tommy Ryan

---

I think I will make a new thread on these quotes.

 

Perhaps, but Marciano did fight half the fight blind, so that has to be taken in account.

He did get the flow of the fight under his control by the end of round 3, before he got blinded in round 6.

Perhaps the scorecards may have not been what they were had that not happen.

 

Good post :good Knockdowns seem to be another thing that some zero in on when it comes to Ali. Like he was the only one to have suffered them.

 

:goodGood Post I agree that Marciano is a very tough fight for Ali and this is a statement that Ali concurred with. I also think speed and movement is Ali's best tool against Walcott but JJW was slick and had a powerful hook and would be dangerous and make it competitive...However I like Walcott to upset Foreman and Tyson...the quicker version of Ali could take the nod vs Walcott but the slower of Ali version or the one that fought Norton,Young could be upset by Walcott...either way JJW is a stylistic nightmare for Ali as well as he was for Marciano and Louis and Charles and Charles and Marciano can attest to the power of Walcotts hook and Joe Louis to Walcotts right hand (Floored Louis 3 times)...In 5 fights there is no way Ali gets by without a loss or 2 vs Walcott

 

In that case, Walcott's chances are even less against Ali.

 

I really like Walcott, but, as with Holmes, I feel that his hypothetical h2h ability sometimes gets blown out of proportion.

He doesn't have a winning record against anyone even remotely close to Ali in terms of quality at HW. The best he managed was going 2-2 with LHW Charles and arguably 1-1 with a past prime Louis.

I think he would have given Ali a good fight, but in the end prime Ali just has too much advantage in terms of speed and youth. And I don't see why it should be more difficult stylewise for Ali than for Walcott. Both liked to circle, set traps and counter, so neither is going to relish having to lead.

And please, please, please don't bring up Young.

It would be a fascinating fight, with both trying to trap the other. But Ali's superior reach, speed and workrate should see him through.

Marciano is a tougher cookie. He's awkward and he won't stop coming forward. He will belt Ali's ribs and midsection with short, powerful hooks whenever he gets in close and Ali's jabs and right crosses won't slow Rocky down much.

 

I love when people call hw champions "former lhws" as if it would take anything away of their credibility when in reality it only takes away credibility of the poster.

 

Relax, kraut.

It was only to emphasise that Charles was at his best at LHW. He was a good HW champion as well, but he was no Ali.