I get where you're coming from but i dont think its relevant. I think its much more simple than that and will be decided on strength and stamina rather than skillllz. Johnson at his age, at this point in his career, at this weight and in England WILL NOT be able to hang with Froch :deal
for the record just cause I'm picking Johnson doesn't mean I'm hating on Froch. I picked Froch by easy UD over Abraham
I take the point, but I think whether Glen was good at the weight or not, he could still conceivably of dropped rounds against someone like Green, not because Green is particularly good, but because he posed stylistic problems for Johnson, like youth, speed, reach. Also, the rounds Johnson lost, were most probably a result of him starting slow, which he seems prone to do. I think it was his pressure, but it was mental pressure. I personally dont think Froch has better movement than Green, I think he's far too rigid, just that thus far, he has not relied on movement when he's been put under intense pressure, that is when his lack of technique will show up big time imo, that said, I im pretty sure he doesn't have better ring generalship than Montell Griffin or Antonio Tarver, yet Johnson still managed to get to where he needed to be against those guys. Good points, particularly the latter. I do think Froch could potentially use that to his advantage, keep Glen Johnson on the D when he shells up by opening up, he seemed to do that pretty well against AA in spots. I think Froch looks okay when you attack him methodically, cause his technical flaws dont show up. Take Khan, if Maidana had not pressed him as hard as he did, his footwork wouldn't of been exploited the way it was, I mean its not like Maidana was doing a particularly good job at cutting the ring down, he only cornered Khan, because Khan has poor footwork, footwork that gets exploited the more pressure you put him under, see the latter part of the Kotelnik fight? I believe Froch could get himself into vulnerable positions, or leave himself open, if subjected to such pressure, as he seems to drag his feet, or he distributes his weight funny, like he has one foot in the bucket when he attacks. I did'nt think Kessler pressed the fight that hard, infact I dont think the fight was the war its made out to be, I mean aside from a great last round or 2, it was a fairly tentative fight. I do agree his only chance is by KO. :thumbsup Nah neither can I, I just cant envisage Froch getting stopped. I think the last point is part of the problem Froch might have, he potentially wont get any thinking time against Johnson, although I take the point, Glen cant apply the same pressure he could. I seriously cant see Froch stopping Johnson, I will be truly astonished if he does. Fair points though.:thumbsup PS, I do think Froch will win, I just think his youth is going to see him through, although I'd sooner the RW won.
Yes you also make some fair points. It's true that you sometimes, at least in spurts, don't get much thinking time with Johnson and we will see how Froch reacts to that. And to be fair we haven't yet seen enough evidence of Froch's ability on the back foot. He did it successfully in the middle round against Pascal, but I've always felt it was at least partly due to Pascal being gassed after the intense start. For Christ sake, look at his gassing vs Dawson and Hopkins despite the modest pace... I do think he was good of the back foot vs Kessler - like Kessler said, he punches when you punches and counters your jab with his own. Kessler was wary because Froch tried to set traps. AA is very predictable because he always shells up fpr long periods, burts into life and then shells up again. AA telegraphed when these burts woould come painfully much so all Froch had to do was sticking out the jab,move out of harms way when the flurry came and then, most impressively, attack RIGHT after the AA flurry. He did this every time and it was obvoius AA was both mentally and physically hurt about it. That's not the reaction he usually gets after a powerful KO flurry! Anyway, I digress a bit. I don't think we will agree on whose pressure is better - Kessler or Johnson - but I will concede this: their pressure differs from eachother. Kessler relies much more on his jab, has quicker feet and is more methodical and tentativedespite his excellent chin. Despite Johnson's slower feet there might be an argument for him to be more of a nuisance due to his willingness to walk through fire and his high guard. He goes more for low-quality volume with some high-quality shots sneked in. We will see how Froch reacts to this kind of pressure. IMV not better but different? Yes. And even though there are some similarities between AA and Johnson's guard that could be relevant in this match-up the similarities end there. Johnson has volume and presses much more. Johnson managed to get Dawson out of a, what it seemed, a safe win in the first fight so maybe Froch could be too? Somehow I just see Froch as mentally stronger than Dawson. Your point about Tarver might be correct, but I must say that this is no longer relevant. That fight when Johnson was at his best and those days are gone now. That version wouldn't have lost to defenseless Cloud and lost rounds against mentally fragile fighters like Mack and Green. Froch is a good general and has showed that in parts in all of his fights against world-class oppposition. He's admittingly also lost the generalship early on against Kessler (too tentative), Dirrell (too tentative,tried to box a superior boxer), Pascal (brawl) and Taylor (Taylor is good early on and quick) but later on in this fights he usually adapts and regains control. It will be interesting to se how Froch's late successes stand up to Johnson's late pressure. Last but not least I wonder about your points about Green. You seem to be a solid poster with an interest for the technical parts of the game which is refreshing in this fanboy-dominated community, so it comes as a surprise to me that you seem to rate aspects of Green's game that high. Youth doesn't matter because as proved vs Miranda and Ward - he has **** stamina. Reach? Froch has octopus arms and utilizes it better too. Green's variation plainly sucks whereas Froch has builded up quite a nice little repertoire (even though I admit his long uppercut sucks). Not to mention that Froch has acrually proved his things against elite opposition while Green has looked appalingly bad when put in against the shark. Let's see Green avoid AA, push Taylor back, make Kessler tentative or Dirrell whine first before we claim parts of his game to be superior.
Very good opening post Gooners. The more I think about this fight, the more I get stoked about it. You do make some good points for GJ. But I do expect Froch to fight a disciplined fight and take it on the cards. PS- What a difference 1 fight makes. Everyone suddenly views Froch as some sort of superb technician based on his dominance of a tentative AA.
I see it as the opposite people were and will always underrate his awkwardness and skills hence the (caveman) comments, and in the AA fight people got to see him use his ring generalship and controlling the distance with the jab and his movement, some of this is down to the opponent but it's also down to maturing and finally listening to his trainer, and in the AA fight is the first time Froch has stuck to a game plan and not got drawn into a brawl.
This might have nothing to do with the Johnson fight, and I know I might sound a bit harsh, but I personally dont rate Kessler as a technical fighter, he is more conventional than technical to me. Kessler is a good/decent counter puncher on the backfoot (Andrade), but he never convinced me on the front foot, infact I thought his fight with Mundine HL some of of his short comings on the front foot. Kessler is also very predictable imo, for a Boxer anyway, he backs up in straight lines, he attacks in straight lines, he also doesn't get his feet into position when he throws the jab imo, which means he reaches a little with it, which I felt he did a lot of during the Froch fight. I thought Ward exploited Kessler's tendency to go straight back, cause when Ward overshot his right hand, Kessler's instinct was to take a step back, so instead of Ward pulling out after over shooting his right hand, Ward would throw the upjab, then throw another right hand, and cause Kessler goes straight back, he invariably never got out of the way of that punch, seriously, if you go back and watch that fight, keep your eye it for it, Ward exploits it over and over again. When Kessler came foward against Froch, he was not cutting the ring off particularly well imo, he was coming in straight with his attacks and was giving Froch far!! too much thinking time which helped him navigate himself safely around the ring, when I thought more pressure would of exploited his balance, footwork, technique. I dont necessarily agree Kessler has quicker feet, although I must say, I dont necessarily think either of them have notable foot-speed, that said, Johnson certainly closes distance quicker than Kessler imo, which as you said, is probably more due to style as anything. I dont think Kessler takes away your thinking time with his pressure, that he makes it easier for you because of that, that and the fact he doesn't cut the ring off, is what I felt gave him issues with Ward & Froch. BTW, I personally thought Froch won that fight to.:thumbsup That is a good point, even in a dog fight you cant see Froch succumbing to mental pressure, Johnson will have to take him out, cause he surely wont convince Froch to pack it in, his balls are too big for that I cant argue with that, he was deffo a better fighter back then. I have to disagree bud. I question whether Froch has good ring generalship, to me, thus far, when he's tried to box on the backfoot, he has been afforded time and space, its easier to think about what to throw, where to move after throwing, when the opponent is not taking away your thinking time, infact I guess thats the point here, Johnson's not so much an all out pressure fighter, but he's a guy that applies mental pressure, he's constant and persistent with what he does. Froch is terrible technically bud, he throws punches when his feet aren't in position, like when he was a jabbing to the body against Taylor, he was half way in, half way out, still with his foot in the bucket, like he was apprehensive about committing himself, he punches wide with his hooks, as he doesn't rotate his body sufficiently into those hooks, which have to do when your so tall because your arms are that much longer, meaning to turn your punches over sufficiently requires more body rotations, not only that though, when Froch does get wide with his hooks, he gets square, which is when his chin goes in the air. Froch only has a good jab cause he has long arms, aside from that, he pushes the jab most of the time, its not particularly quick either. Froch is a better fighter than Green overall, but in terms of balance, straight punching, rotating your body into your punches, throwing straight, short, throwing them from the correct distance, Green is much better imo., although as I say Froch is obviously the better fighter because of his mental fortitude, chin, stamina etc, he certainly aint got this far because of those skills imo.
Here is the analysis: Glen Johnson: 40-something year old fogie Carl Froch: 33 year old who has only slightly started to fade. Winner: Froch
I don't think its possible to call anybody at that kind of level technically terrible. He does come square to land shots and doesn't necessarily have a style thats easy for everyone to digest. Carl was an world class amateur and has often cited that he wasn't given enough freedom to fight the way he wanted to in the am's. I know that your going to probably deny this avidly but it seems as though your picks and analysis have some form of slight racial prejudice. Carl is much more elusive than people give him credit for, and has much quicker hands. Uncle Glen as i like to call him is a fighter i've enjoyed watch and supporting for a long while but I doubt he'll be able to beat Froch in any way. The best i reckon GJ fans can hope for is a competitive UD in which Glen will cry robbery and a few Froch haters will agree.
To be frank, neither of these gentlemen is a technical pugilist. In fact I am having a hard time trying to decide whose basic skills are more flawed, they are both so crude.
I too spent a lot of time on the fence with this fight, wondering who will win....but now I'm pretty sure I it is a very easy fight to pick the winner. I think Froch is going to kill him. It might not be an "easy fight" per-say....but I am very comfortable in saying that Johson is not going to win. And frankly by the end Johnson is going to be a mess. Carl Froch fights with a rediculous fierocity and he is going to be turning full force into a guy with minimal speed, who comes straight at him. I love Glen but he is going to get bombed like he's never been Bombed before. Addendum: The BEST punch to throw against a pressure fighter is the upper cut. Once Froch gets that thing going its game over for Johnson. That and I expect him to bash the **** out of Glen`s body for most of the early rounds.
I agree. People tend to think that unless a fighter is textbook, what they are doing isn't right which I don't consider to be the case. I liked the opening post, and it was a good one by the way, but I was shocked to read that he thinks Green is a better technician than Froch. Maybe in the dusty old textbooks, yes, but Froch certainly has better technique for his style than Green does. I think it's too easy to underrate a guy just because they aren't textbook. If Froch was as close to as basic and primitive as people have said on ESB for literally years, he wouldn't have the excellent record he current does have and, honestly, it's only going to improve. That said, I think Johnson is a difficult fight. The workrate the two have and how easy to hit both are, especially Johnson, leads me to think Froch will win on points but it will be close. I'm incredibly nervous about this fight as a Froch fan, who was one of the few hundred in Helsinki, because Johnson has posed so many good fighters a lot of problems over the years. I usually think that's a pretty ignorant statement, by the way. To just look at a guys recent opposite and assume a future fight will pan out that way is what I'm against on these forums, but with Johnson, I still have my doubts. The guy is very good even at this age, he adapts well and he subtlety takes away his opponents strengths, which makes him so dangerous. Froch UD but it will be close. I expect to see lots of posts saying "Caveman Froch was lucky to get by an old man" after the bout.
