Solis has just been unimpressive no matter how you look at it. There's no indication that he'll turn out to be anything but another Jorge Luis Gonzalez. When showing up at nearly 250 pounds is okay then something is going wrong. It's different for Vitali who has 6-7 inches on Solis in height.
I'll wait and see how he performs. Arreola looked terrible but actually had good stamina and quick hands when he faced Vitali, it was his dumb strategy and not his tits that proved his undoing. I think Solis is a far more polished fighter than Arreola but I have a feeling he'll ultimately be in the same position. Solis seems to be carrying the poundage alright at the weigh in. Who knows? Bruno was built like a greek god but had terrible stamina.
You skipped my points. Once again Solis is very experienced amateur in his prime, and withing a 1/4 a pound of his career low weight. Very few top ten fighters today beat other top ten fighters in their prime or near prime. For example, Haye beat an older Valuev, and did not look good in the process until the final round. Haye did not fight Arreola, Povetkin, Adamek, ect.
No I didn't, I dealt with them earlier in the thread. As i've already told you, important, not cruical. He's 17-0. The reason all the storied am's in the history of the sport that have turned pro haven't fought for titles straight away is everybody knows how different the two codes are. This is a universal truth acknowledged by all fight people. We don't know that yet. He is in his prime years, but if he conquers his weight problems later in his life his prime is still to come. Also, not many fighters are in their literal primes after 17 pro fights, however much you insist upon the contrary. Which speaks of his horrible history of poor conditioning. So? How many top ten ranked Ring contenders has he beaten? For the third time of asking. The point i've made that you have skipped concerns Vitali's own career and the fact that inspite of his having a storied combat career pre-boxing himself, when he was 17-0 he was fighting a very poor level of talent. This is how a heavyweight is built. The idea that Solis has been moved along fast is correct only in that he has been rushed into a title shot he is not ready for. Like Vitali, Lewis, Ali and Tyson before him, he shouldn't be fighting this title fight after 17 fights because he just isn't ready for it. And everyone who knows boxing knows it, I would have thought.
I am not so sure I can agree with this. If you are good enough you are usually ready for it. We dont know if Solis is any good or not, but that is just the way of doing things nowadays. I mean Haye is the world champion and we dont even know if he is a world class heavyweight or not. We think he is but who knows, he hasnt hardly beat anyone. Vitali isnt all that much better. And even the Wladimir, who has those worrying KO losses has never really faced a proven fighter. This will always be the case, until the top 10 fighters actually start fighting each other regularly. Until then, we can only guess. I hope Solis goes okay and would love to see an upset.
I agree with boilermaker, if he's good enough he's ready. He certainly isn't going to get any better languishing waiting for his shot. BUT is he good enough? He has a tight defense, good skills, good infighter, reasonably fast. Which all leaves me frustrated because if he worked harder in training he could be really really good. Still I think his body punching and intelligent pressure could make this one interesting Its a decent opponent for Vitali, Vitali's recent opposition reminds me a bit of Holmes young green challengers of the 80s though
Uh, yeah, he is. Fighters get better as they have fights. If Solis was matched with Chagaev, Haye and then Vitali, he would be a better fighter after those fights than before - experience is a crucial factor.
Uhh yea thats why Chagaev was so primed for Wlad and why Sam Peter was so much a bigger threat to the Klits as he got more experience :nut The longer Solis waits the fatter and older he gets, he may actually have it in him to grab the bull by the horns at this moment. Its not like fighting a top10er thats nothing like Vitali is going to prepare him to fight a 6'7 rangy jab machine anyway. I know you don't value amateur fights as experience but there's a hell of a good reason managers and promoters do
So your argument is that because experienced fighters have lost to the Klitschkos, experience is a worthless commodity? :nut Yeah, another year and another two fights and he'll be 31 instead of 30 :nut That's not impossible. Still isn't any help at all as regards your point that experience won't help him because Chagaev lost to Wladimir :nut Yeah, guys should just turn pro and fight Vitali immediatly, there's no point in trying to learn the trade, he's so amazing :nut Oh, you do do you? Even though i've said in this thread about three times that I think it's "important"? :nut
No the point is Chagaev and Peter dropped off dramatically, the Chag who beat Valuev would have done far better than the Chag who got mauled by Mat Skelton, Peter got worse after his first Wlad fight. The best version of Riddick Bowe was the inexperienced Holyfield 1 version, some fighters have the chance to have a short bright light Once you've fought for 20years, been in fight upon fight with world class boxers over 4rounds, had 17 amateur fights, been 10rounds, YOU AREN'T GETTING BETTER OR MORE EXPERIENCED FROM FACING A SHOT CHAGAEV Usually there isn't 1 fight thats going to give a contender the experience for the jump into the deep end against a great champion anyway, going 12 a few times helps but that wouldn't necessarily happen anyway. Which 1 fight preperared Frazier for Ali, Bowe for Holyfield, Ali for Liston, Tyson for Berbick. SOmetimes a fighter has to sink or swim
Yeah, there's a chance Solis might have torn an Achillies Tendon or contracted hepatitis in the next 12 months I suppose...maybe there are a couple of guys who are am's right now who you think should be matched with Vitali in case they get hit by cars? YES YOU ARE IF HE IS THE BEST FIGHTER YOU HAVE EVER FACED, HE WILL TEACH YOU ABOUT TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS, WHAT LIES WITHIN AND WHICH THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN DOING AGAINST NO HOPERS THAT WON'T WORK AGAINST EXPERIENCED CONTENDERS. No "1 fight" prepared them, what are you talking about? They got better by fighting many men, multiple ranked contenders. That's my whole point :nut
Either way 1 of the keys to good management is the need to strike while the irons hot when you're fighter is in or near their prime, wait too long and you'll be past it. See Gomez circa 2004-5, he would have had a better shot against Vitali then but faded. History is full of examples of inexperienced fighters turning over great experienced fighters. Solis is not a man who's getting any better in the next 2 years :deal
I do tend to agree with PowerPuncher here, though that's only because of Odlanier Solis's limitations and the nature of today's heavyweight division and its promoters. Had he shown any willingness to improve, it would be different. He's being fed easy opponents and only gets heavier and sloppier in each bout. Experience is always valuable but nowadays the contenders do not seem to fight other contenders, they only grow their padded records (and stomachs) against very beatable opposition, until the eventual shot at Klitschko, the cashing-in, a reward for having come up with an unbeaten record and generating some interest with pre-fight trash talk. I doubt we will hear of Solis again after this bout. Perhaps he will fight Wladimir as well having become a mandatory again for beating some washed up 90's contender.
Vitali won a world title belt in less than three years, McGrain! That is being moved quickly is it not? Soils has been a pro for nearly 4 years. Like Vitali neither beat a top ten opponent before their world title shot. Solis has tons of experience. He is in his best shape as a pro, and in his prime now as his style requires fast hands and quick reflexes. You mention Tyson. Ok, he was very young was he not? Yep. How about Ali? Ali was 22 years old, and had a 19-0 record. I think Solis could beat all 19 fighters Ali first faced, and might have an easier time with it. Was Patterson ready at his age? Or how about Jeffries who won the title with less than 17 fights?