Sonny liston vs 70s heavyweights?

liston was a good boxer. he knew his way around the ring. wasn't just a mindless fighter with power, as he's often depicted.

 

Liston was in the midst of a dubious comeback (though at the time it was taken seriously) in the late 60s and there was talk of him facing Frazier. He himself spoke of it as well. “I’ll beat [Frazier],” he declared. “I won’t have to chase him. It’ll be like shooting fish in a barrel.” And his new trainer was Dick Sadler... who would go on to train Foreman.

That dissipated, faded, but still very strong version of Liston would have beaten a young Frazier, but we're talking about 1959/60 here. I don't see even a prime Joe lasting four rounds.

Liston gave us a clue of how he would handle a smaller, bobbing & weaving hooker when he steam-rolled Floyd Patterson. Sure, Frazier is physically stronger than Floyd and his whiskers were more reliable, but were these enough for him to get physical with Liston? Hell no.

Let's look at the respective styles. Joe was more of a pressure fighter than Floyd. He was more aggressive. Is that going to make a difference? Only to his detriment. Joe is not going to do anything but come into the line of fire and make a fight of this. He is going to rely on the momentum of coming forward to set up and launch those left hooks.

You make a comparison between Ali's success with Joe and what would happen with Liston. It would be more appropriate to look at what Foreman did. Liston won't shove him like Foreman, but he will use that jab to destabilize Joe before Joe can get outside -and he'll stick it on his chest or thereabouts and then blast away. Ali was able to counter Liston's jab with a right. Does anyone see Joe doing the same? Hell no. And so what if Joe does get close -Liston was adept inside and Joe isn't going to want to hold up that bulk for very long.

When Liston fought Cleveland Williams -who was also known for a left hook, he used tactics to get under it and kept his right high. He also outmuscled Cleveland -forcing him backwards. And what happened when Williams turned it on and got aggressive? He got finished off.

Liston will de-stabilize any smaller man with that heavy jab of his. He's gonna time Joe's weaves with hooks from both sides and once he starts shovelling in those uppercuts, it's gonna get ugly.

Liston was not sloppy like Foreman -I see Liston doing to Frazier what Foreman did -only neater. So yes, a fairly easy conquest.

 

Sonny does get a bad-rap, as not a 'quick-thinker' in the ring.

The Liston vs Clay I fight, more of Liston not in condition, believing he was
invincible.
And being surprised by a lightning fast fighter, who could not be hit flush.

Sonny beats 1970/1971/1972 George Foreman, but not an on-target Foreman in 1973.

Sonny beats a 1966/1967 Joe Frazier, but not the cat-quick Frazier of 1968/1969/1970.
Sonny beats a 1970 1/2 and later Joe. Especially after he broke his ankle in April 1970.

 

Agreed Duce


And I would even go as far as to say he put on a great performance against possibly the greatest fighter ever on possibly his greatest night ever. Liston really pushed Ali that night, and forced him to fight at his highest level.


Those are not all hooks Ali was ducking and dodging, it was those jabs. He put 100% effort into dodging as many jabs as he could from Liston. That was one of they keys to victory for Ali that night.

 

I think a lot of those 70's guys are going to have major problems with that Liston jab. A bigger problem is that great left hook of Sonny's off that jab. I think that punch hurts everyone he hits with it including guys like Foreman/Frazier/Holmes/Norton. Actually Norton has like zero chance and a guy like Bonavena has a much better chance to pull out a W.

And Ali got hit a lot more in the 70's than he ever did in the 60's. And Ali got hit a lot more after the Foreman fight. That version of Ali is not beating Sonny. The elusiveness of Young is a problem but I think Liston takes the close decision.

Can you imagine the results of some of those other 70's guys in there with a prime Liston? Guys like a Bugner. What a beating. Or say a Bobick. Or Neon Leon. Tate. It may not take 10 rounds collectively to leave a scrapheap of those caliber guys.

 

We probably never saw the best Liston as he was in jail that delayed his coming on the scene. A prime 58 -60 Liston beats them all except a pre-70's Ali (who beats anyone and everyone). Certainly the faster 58-60 Liston would have put up a better fight than the 63/64 one, by then he was an over the hill old gun slinger. But a pretty mean and useful gunslinger none the less! A 58-60 Liston beats a 70's Ali, his legs had gone by then.

 

Not so sure. Snipes nearly had Holmes out with a basic one-two. Ali's style would always trouble Liston, but he might have slipped enough to lose to a prime Sonny in the seventies.

 

Beat me to it!

 

I remember an interview with Ali in The Ring where he rated Sonny really highly; said Sonny could do everything except dance(or words to that effect). I would love to have seen the Liston of the Williams fights in with Ali, I think it would be a much better, closer fight than the 1964 one.

 

liston is very very overrated, several guys of this era would give him the hell, he would not be the big man any more. young would make him stupid, lyle would give him the hell of his ****ing life, frazier ,ali and foreman beat him. quarry and bonavena would give him the hell. mc foster and shavers could ice him in a good night with a lucky shot

 

I think Quarry gives a tough time as well.

 

He would be right up until the moment Sonny`s jab breaks Quarry`s skin open. Then it`s a bloodbath.

 

good high diver??? whats up with that? Young definatley beats any version of Liston, Holmes I think could take him. Norton gets KO'd early.

 

Goes undefeated. He probably becomes the greatest of all time.