Does Haye deserve a shot at Vitali if....

Yeah, why not? It's not like there's much out there in HW world.
Only with Haye's attitude I don't expect him to fight Vitali. Take the money and disapear, like said here before looks like the most probable outcome in that case.

 

Like he dissapeared after losing to an ancient carl thompson? that was far more embarrasing than losing to a heavweight like Wlad.

You can't doubt his heart and belief if you ask me

 

I think he could lose badly (like everyone has to Wlad recently) and he'd still be a ring-ranked top ten heavy, so sure. In today's division, I mean. Granted, it would be ideal if he took a fight with a name fighter first but that's ideally.

 

In the Thompson case he was just starting out in his career. Quitting at that point would have meant taking up a dayjob and probably never beïng wealthy.
Now he will retire insanely rich even when he loses bigtime.

Indeed BE, but the other HW's didn't build their name on the Klitschko brothers. Losing badly would end the hype and make David into "just another contender" only with a bigger mouth.
Huge paydays will be gone, and he probably has to fight other good Heavy's to prove himself again.
Plus there's the retirering part.

 

Klit fans lack of objectivity is laughable. Haye has never quit a fight or been knocked out, and Wlad hasn't knocked anyone out early for years, so how do you come up with these scenarios and what are they based on apart from your own blinkered view of the world? It's especially funny that Haye is seen as unworthy for a shot at Wlad or Vitali's titles but the likes of Chisora (twice no less) and Solis are seen as legitimate contenders.

As for Haye being 'crushed' by a defeat because of his cocky manner, far cockier boxers have taken their defeats well and Haye has always given his opponents credit after the fight. He has NEVER claimed to be ATG although he has a HoF shout at CW, and he knows that if the HW division was any good, he wouldn't have dared to step up.

He was still throwing punches when the fight was stopped against Thompson, and was CLEARLY gassed out but he has no heart apparently. He also displayed a lack of heart when he got off the canvas to knock out Mormeck in his own back yard. That same lack of heart has shown in his decisions to fight Valuev in Germany and sign up to fight either brother, in Germany again. As for 'losing' to Valuev, how exactly do you lose a fight by punching the other guy and avoiding his punches more often than he does to you? Haye brought a game-plan and Valuev did not have the skills nor the boxing brain to counter it.

Wlad is supposedly the dominant champion in the division so Haye can always set up a fight with Vitali or anyone else in the division should he lose, and I would expect him to if he acquits himself well against Wlad, win or lose. In no other division would anyone say that the No 3 should not fight the No 2 if he loses to the No 1, but then no other division has the 'two fighters for the price of one' bull**** that Klit fans are happy to accept.

 

Vitaly should give him a fight for his own sake.

As amazing as it is, Vitaly still has more legacy work to do. Haye, regardless of the Wlad fight, is a good name.

 

Good post but I'd like to mention to this part that if you look Wlad's opponent after Williams (TD 5th in 2004); only Rahman (7th, Lennox 4th), and Byrd (7th, Ibeabuchi 5th) were knocked out faster than Wlad did.

On Haye's hw campaign Harrison 3rd (Sprott 3rd), Ruiz 9th (Tua 1st) and Barrett 5th (Couser 2nd). Only Bonin (1st) was stopped faster than before.

Yes, Tua is a bit unfair to mention but Ruiz was 14 years younger at that time.

I believe that everyone who Wlad has fought lately can take a better punch than Haye and that's probably the reason why so many see early stoppage.

 

If Haye beats Wlad or puts up a good fight while losing I think he and Vitali is still very marketable and probably ends up happening. There aren't any other heavyweight fights that would bring in the money that Vitali-Haye would even if Haye were to lose to Wlad. If Haye were to get ko'ed early or get dominated and look totally outclassed by Wlad then that might be different but as long as Haye holds his own he can lose and still face Vitali, and if Haye upsets Wlad a Vitali-Haye fight would be huge.

 

Good post from someone who obviously follows and 'watches' boxing! :good

 

atsch

He was champ emeritus

 

Post and a half. :good

 

Its sad when the two biggest HW fights this year are the dominant champs against blown up CW's. But it is what it is. After Wlad beats Haye and Vitali beats Adamek, then maybe Adamek and Haye can duke it out if they want a rematch with either brother. But I seriously doubt that Vitali will have any interest in fighting Haye after Wlad, unless of course Wlad was to lose, that's there pattern, they don't take turns beating the same guy, Vitali beats guys who beat Wlad instead. The division is so poor right now I'd rather see Wlad go on the fight Povetkin like he should have already but that's on Atlas, and Vitali will probably retire after a few more fights and then maybe we can get some more competitive fights with some of the up and comers that are untested as of yet, I'd like to see Aerreola get a bigger fight if he takes care of business in May, maybe he's a good challenge for Povetkin to get ready to move a bigger man around in the ring before he makes another try at a fight with Wlad.

 

:good

 

I've never subscribed to the 'who stopped who earlier' theory. Younger boxers are not necessarily better than their older selves. I've lost count of the times that I've shouted 'take a knee!' at the TV when an inexperienced fighter is in trouble and he thinks he can get out of it, only to rush back in and get KTFO. My only point was that Klit fans are coming out with all sorts of ridiculous predictions when there is absolutely nothing in either fighters history to back it up. Wlad is not, and has never been a quick KO artist and Haye has never shown a lack of 'heart'. Wlad will look to dominate with his jab and Haye will conserve energy the first few rounds and try to time Wlad and counter him, and both fighter's histories clearly demonstrate that. The only unknown factors in this fight are whether Wlad can pin Haye down, and whether Haye can effectively counter Wlad's jab. Either way, Wlad will absolutely not risk trying to bomb Haye out and Haye won't commit until he thinks he's timed Wlad and either scenario won't happen until at least the third round at best. It will come down to whicehever fighter can execute their own game plan effectively.

The only possible results I see from this fight are Haye KO/TKO 3-9 or Wlad UD. Despite all the talk, Wlad doesn't have to take any risks at all and certainly won't stretch the fight out just to KO Haye in the 12th. It might happen by chance, but if Haye is still dangerous by the last round, Wlad will be up on points and won't be looking to get himself brutally knocked out by a counter.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind when considering how marketable a freshly beaten Haye would be for a possible Vitali fight is not only how Haye is beaten, as Chef said, but also the fact that the rest of the division is pretty much a barren wasteland with not much to offer Vitali.

So even a thrashed Haye would still look pretty good, considering what else Vitali has to choose from.