Who here feels both "Hagler & SRL" may've been juiced in April '87?

Certainly wasn't a massive stigma against them back then.

Anyway, the S word was thrown around by the Hearn's camp prior to the second Leonard/Hearn's fight.

 

Yes i was gonna mention that Leonard came in alot more muscular vs Hearns the 2nd fight... Was also big against Hagler compared to WW days, but that could also be natural weight gain combined with some weights,Id give him benefit of the doubt though becaue he was naturally cut and was a good size welter, easy to see him puttng on muscle... As for Hagler no way he always looked like that even before he won the title, he is also one of the hardest trainers that i can think of and usually came in under the MW limit.

 

I have no real opinion whether they were or weren't doing one thing or another. Just stating what I know.

 

I think through the mid 80's through the nineties Roids were running rampant in boxing.. Look at the physiques of the average world class boxers up until then.. There was some unusually looking chiseled fighters..

 

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it ever came out that they did. I think they've been pretty commonplace in the biggest names and fights for a long time now. The difference is that the witch hunt that is the current environment concerning PED's didn't exist even ten years ago, let alone 20 and 30.

 

No PEDS were used by both fighters in that fight IMO. Leonard and Hagler could fight the long distance because they were strong fighters. I saw them beating up their opponents by points many times.

 

I think leonard might have juiced vs hagler and hearns, He looked way bigger and had great stamina. This sounds weird tto say as a big hearns fan but I wouldnt be surprised if he was on something as well. I think hagler and duran are clean. I also take ali was on some roid for the holmes fight and I also suspect young mike tyson. But since there is no proof we cant tarnish their legacy.

 

Leonard still looks great at 55, and Hagler looked good the last time I saw him, too. World class athletes who trained like world class athletes and always had tons of talent should be given, I think, the benefit of the doubt.

I've said this before and I'll say it again no doubt, but in my youth I watched my 140 lb father in his 40s putting up 320-340 on the bench, with no steroids, no supplements, nothing. Some people just have the physical capabilities to do amazing things, and those guys were phenomenal. Hell, I'll even believe in Pac.

So put me on the blind bandwagon, for Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard (maybe not Pryor but I want to believe in him) Morales, Barrera, Marqeuz, Pac, Oscar, Hopkins, and even Floyd, I think they are all clean. This is not bodybuilding, this is a sport where technique and heart can sometimes trump physical capabilities, but if you have all three, you are practically unstoppable.

 

They were juiced long before '87, buddy.

The roses smell good, don't they?

 

Like I said, all I know is all the medium sized 190 lb guys in my weightlifting gym are supplemented out their rears, and it really doesn't make them much stronger (or stronger at all in some cases) than an exceptionally strong little guy 60 lbs lighter with, if I do say so myself, a godly physique, who doesn't even touch legal supplements, so I believe in these guys as the best in the world. Just because we can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done within human parameters, I maintain that stance, and always will.

Look at this physique and honestly tell me this is not natural:

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I'm not a world class athlete, not close, just an amatuer fighter, but I never even touched a supplement and I was 5'8'', 128 lbs in this picture.

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Does Ray really look unnatural? Heck no.

 

Damn you, I was just about to start a thread about this very subject before I got side tracked into this one. It seems like that even for a lot of fighters today...I just don't remember Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, or many of the old fighters being totally shredded the way so many fighters are today (and 80s-90s).

How much of it could be advances in knowledge of nutrition and medical supplements (did the old guys have special nutritionists working with them, or was it just trainers using old wives tales types of diet?)?