Who here feels both "Hagler & SRL" may've been juiced in April '87?

What 5'8" 128... Crazy

His shoulders and unusual looking biceps do stand out... At his age his body became rapidly more muscular..

 

If this was anything like the Pre-Armstrong/Doping years of Cycling in the 80s, they were doped to the gills.

 

I don't think Hagler ever juiced, ever. Nothing about him makes me think that anyway, he was old school.

 

But what about Leonard who wanted to win at any cost..

 

I don't really think Leonard juiced either, but Hagler is a lot less possible in my mind.

Plus, Leonard did everything to **** off Hagler in that buildup, for years he did **** to annoy him and jerked him around, plus Leonard was a money man and had a lot of guys around him. Not at all insinuating he was doping, but that he's the more likely.

Out of the four, if I had to pick a guy who might've doped, Hearns or Duran would be more likely, but even then I wouldn't say they did. You just don't know.

 

Would you stop using any reason to post that picture of yourself all the time? Get over yourself. I look much better and I've never put up a photo of myself.

On the otherhand I fully agree with your point and believe both fighters were clean and should be given the benefit of the doubt considering how hard they both work.

 

:roflThis is the 3rd thread I've seen that pic come up in the last week or so.

 

What does old school have anthing to do with it? Long distance runners and cyclists stuffed themselves with all kinds of dangerous drugs in the 1950's and sometimes died from them. Hagler had this "the whole world is against me" mindset, I wouldn't be surprised if he looked for every possible advantage.

 

I agree.
I think at some point they may have all been on the juice apart from Hagler. And not just them, the prolific heavyweight from the 50's to the 90's may have been on roids, including Ali and Tyson.

 

It's a good point you're making about his appearance, however there was an interview with Holyfield in Muscle & Fitness in '93 and in it he detailed what had been going on with his training.

Initially he'd been trained directly by Fred Hatfield & Lee Haney, however due to Haney's training demands he'd been unable to train Holyfield, also Holyfield's team had unwisely dropped Hatfield.
Instead Haneys training partner had convinced Evander that he could train him properly. What he did was train Holyfield throughout the end of '91 & '92, but he was training him as a bodybuilder, using a rep tempo suited for that, instead of concentrating on explosive lifts. According to Holyfield he was finding that the "snap" was disappearing from his punches and he was "pushing" them more and more. This was apparent to him in the Cooper fight, but became really noticable, to him, in the Holmes fight, when he said the extra boost or strength he always felt from his weight training had totally deserted him.

As a result of that, going into the first Bowe fight, Holyfield actually dropped his weights regimen totally, which resulted in him dropping weight and coming in at 205. He re-engaged Hatfield after the first fight and built up, initially to 212, I think, for the Stewart fight and added another 5 pounds for the Bowe match.

I know a lot of people always say that Holyfield showed no loss of muscle definition when adding weight, but if you actually look at still photos he really did. In stills from the first Bowe match his abdominals were visible in the middle of punching, for example, whereas in the rematch they weren't, suggesting that he'd added at least a little bit of bodyfat there.
Also, since his usual fighting weight, at that point, was around the 210 mark or so and the 205 for Bowe was artificially low, adding 7 pounds of muscle for a world class athlete, especially one who has always been known as a workhorse like Holyfield, really isn't that impossible or unbelievable at all.

To go back to Hagler/Leonard though (lol), I always though Hagler looked as though he'd dropped some muscle in the fight. In comparison to other fights his physique looked less "full", the muscle bellies looking flatter and less rounded, which'd suggest possibly a touch of overtraining, something that using steroids would've offset.

 

No question about it.

Plus Hagler "abused" Leonard in the locker room after the fight as well from what I hear.

 

The **** are you talking about?

 

I think exactly that is why Hagler didn't juice. He wanted to prove something, I don't think he was the person that could live with himself knowing he hadn't put 100% of the work into it. Besides, he felt robbed and such so many times, and the Sugar Ray loss really got to him, so I feel he worked his hardest and didn't juice, but I can't say that for sure. I just don't believe that's who he was.

I've pretty much finished the book at this point and read past the Leonard/Hearns II chapter going on about Leonard not worrying about testing, but it was never done anyway, so I guess the jury could be out there. Me personally? I don't think Leonard or Hagler did anything.

 

I wouldn't doubt it that Leonard was on steroids. After all, he was a cocaine addict. If he dab into those type of drugs why woudn't he do PEDS. Also, back in those days Steroids didnt have a negative stigma compared to now. I remember Arnold Schwaneger in a interview saying that steroids was the norm and was given by a Dr. So I woudnt doubt it at all that many boxers did steroids during Leonards era.

 

Hagler - No way
Leonard - Maybe