James Toney > Bernard, Roy

i would agree with this

 

I'd argue fairly strongly that McCallum was already past his peak, maybe not hugely but he certainly wasn't what he had been.

As for Nunn, well I after the surprise win over Kalambay he struggled badly with Barkley, looked very poor against a massively undersized Marlon Starling and only so-so against Donald Curry. The magazines at the time were all saying he was being sloppy in training and was throwing away the potential he'd previously displayed. Having said that I did think the way Toney came back from an early points deficit and scored the win was superb.
Can't argue too much with the rest of your post except to say that just before Jones stopped Sosa he'd been nominated as having one of the top chins in boxing and certainly wasn't considered to be past his best.

 

as a toney fan i'd like to think this. and why toney vs hopkins didn't happen idk.

 

Maybe he could have been better than both guys but he wasn't. His aversion to training and lots of sub-par performances hurt his all-time standing.

Sosa and Johnson weren't exactly all-time greats and they both took him right to the wire. Tbh, I don't think there was much difference between the Sosa that Toney struggled wobble and the one RJJ destroyed.

He had some great performances (although calling his clinic over Barkley the greatest-ever display of boxing skill is a bit mental) but he also had some awful performances - Tiberi, the two poor showings against Griffin etc. Let's not forget that Roy schooled him either.

Toney was a natural fighter and its possible he could've been greater than B-Hop and Roy but he didn't want it enough.

 

And somewhere along the way he got caught not only once, but twice.. for using illegal supplements. :rofl

 

The Barkley who had been stopped after a slugfest with benn. And had already developed health problems.

That's the problem with toney nut huggers, they've lost all sense of reality. The guy was probably the most naturally skilled but had poor discipline outside of the ring - although the nut huggers will probably blame It on thyroid

 

Toney is in the same league as Roy or Hopkins no doubt. But is he greater than them?

A case can be made for Toney that he faced the strongest opposition. But he was never as dominant as super Roy, while Hopkins has aged the best by far. Toney has great wins, but also some bad losses. Roy holds great wins too (against Toney and Hopkins f.ex). And it wasn't Roys fault that Toney wasn't in shape on fight night.

One thing's for sure: on pure skills, Toney was the best. Plus he has the best chin and is one of the toughest that ever laced em up. Toney did things Roy or Hopkins could never have done - like going toe to toe with strong HWs like Holyfield, Rahman or Peter (all considered top 5 HWs at the time he faced them) when he was years past his best. Ok, Roy did well against Ruiz, and that has to be considered a great win too, but he couldn't have survived Toneys roller coaster HW ride. But Toney getting caught twice definitely hurt his legacy as a fighter.

At the same time, Hopkins and Roy did things that Toney couldn't have done (or could have done, but hasn't done). Like being consistent. Hopkins becoming the Ring LHW champ at 46 years is a great feat in my book, even if Pascal can't compare to a world class fighter like Nunn, McCallum or Reggie Johnson.

I wouldn't put Toney ahead of Roy or Hopkins, and he's my favourite fighter. But he's definitely on their level. They're all legends and ATGs.

 

I hate to be that guy, but ya'll must've (really) forgot how good RJJ was in his prime....

 

You forgot to mention his failiure to dispatch Drake Thadzi.

 

Oh please. James Toney is greater than Jones and Hopkins in talking trash without backing any up, that's where Toney wins. Legacy-wise he doesn't compete with either Hopkins or Jones.

 

Accomplishments Hopkins, Rj, and Toney for me. H2h its Rj, Toney, and Hopkins. You cant really use their opposition as a measuring stick cuz these 3 were in their own league. Rj and Bhops were healthnuts Toney was just a nut, extremely talented, but a nut.

 

:deal