Mike Tyson- the last Optimus Prime Heavyweight Champion?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Pat$$$, May 29, 2011.


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  1. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Last Optimus Prime ???

    Nope, after Tyson, Lewis did it, and after Lewis, Wlad is doing it now. Of couse there not having 1 round kos left and right, but there cleaning out the heavyweights AFTER Tyson.

    I think once Hayed goes down, people may look at Wlad as a great. Lets hope the fight is not cancle lol.
     
    Dempsey1238, May 29, 2011
    Dempsey1238, May 29, 2011
    #16
  2. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    Wlad is NOT a prime.... Vitali is. Everyone knows it. Vitali is the true optimus prime heavyweight champ. Wlad is just the other champ.

    If we take a deeper look into the Holmes example: Holmes was beat, twice, by Spinks. So therefore he lost his prime status. Everyone has to get beat at some point and time-- and if Marciano stuck around he would have eventually faced a guy with a lucky right hand.

    Holyfield was never a prime heavweight champ at any time because he lost to Bowe twice and lost to Moorer. The see-saw battle over the title as well as after Moorer and Bowe got off of the scene, Evander fought nobody of great significance and in fact fought very little-- I think it was just a year after he fought Lewis.

    You can make a case that Lewis "maybe" a considered prime. But really and truly he lost to Rahman and had to regain. I would rank him a little higher, but a prime is a prime... when Lewis lost to Rahman the first time he was only champ for about 16 months before and he did NOT clean out the division... in fact after the Vitali fight he retired.

    Tyson held the title and fought contenders for over two years plus. His reign was dominant. He should have fought Evander, sure. But no one can doubt that these things don't happen in boxing-- you can't fight everyone. No one can call Tyson a ducker either... not in the fashion of Leonard or Mayweather.

    Tyson was the last prime before Vitali- for as bad as the heavyweight division is, Vitali is prime and his brother Wlad is just the other champ!
     
    Pat$$$, May 29, 2011
    Pat$$$, May 29, 2011
    #17
  3. Tonifranz

    Tonifranz Active Member Full Member

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    Maybe Vitali was "optimus prime", but not anymore.

    I can't consider someone who retired in the middle of his "reign" for four years, then beat up a fighter who his brother already beaten, and who fought lower ranked fighters than his brother, "optimus prime" currently.

    Maybe he was "optimus prime" in 2004, but then, he lost it through retirement. Wlad became "Optimus Prime" during that period, and in my opinion, Vitali didn't do enough to regain it from Wlad.

    That is why most people rank Wlad number one today and Vitali number two, and why Wlad is in most people's top ten pound for pound lists, and Vitali is mostly invisible in the top pound for pound lists.
     
    Tonifranz, May 30, 2011
    Tonifranz, May 30, 2011
    #18
  4. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    You do realize that Vitali has not lost a fight convincingly, correct? The fight against Lewis was stopped on cuts in the 6th round. Vitali won most of the rounds- in many persons minds- before the fight was stopped and had to be stopped to save his eye. He retired against Christ Byrd due to an injury- a fight he was winning handily.

    Compared to Wlad- who got KTFO'd by Brewster. KTFO'd by Ross Purity and KTFO'd Corrie Sanders. Not stopped on cuts. Not RTD'd due to an injury that happened before the fight... he was KNOCKED THE F*CK OUT!

    Who's the better man?
     
    Pat$$$, May 30, 2011
    Pat$$$, May 30, 2011
    #19
  5. krad

    krad New Member Full Member

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    May 28, 2011
    tyson is not optimus prime he wasn't even a member of the autobots..


    peace!!


    Fight Science
     
    krad, May 31, 2011
    krad, May 31, 2011
    #20
  6. Tonifranz

    Tonifranz Active Member Full Member

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    From 1996-2002? Wlad.

    From 2003-2004 - Vitali

    From 2005-Present -Wlad.

    Even with Corrie Sanders, Wlad's still better. Wlad simply fought the better opposition, and that counts alot for who's greater.

    You just don't retire for four years not fighting and claim to be the optimus prime. You can't be an optimus prime by fighting inferior opposition to your younger brother.

    Tell me, who was the highest ranked fighter Vitali actually beat? Sanders. And who was the best fighter Wlad beat?

    Vitali might be better five years ago, but right now, Wlad is clearly better. Bringing up his loses five years ago is as relevant as bringing the losses of Pacquiao to Torrecampo, Dempsey to Flynn, and Pep to Angott.

    Did Vitali suddenly become number one when he beat Peter in 2008? Or did he become number one when he beat Gomez? Arreola? Kevin Johnson? Sosnowski? Briggs? C'mon!

    Wlad's win over Byrd (who was number one in 2006) shames any of Vitali's win!!!


    Tell me why almost all serious boxing organizations rank Wlad ahead of Vitali both at heavyweight and pound for pound Corrie Sanders be damned?
     
    Tonifranz, May 31, 2011
    Tonifranz, May 31, 2011
    #21
  7. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    There was no real champion until Lewis left. In fact, Lewis is not even a prime for the mere fact he got ko'd by Rahman and held the belt for less than 18 months. In addition to that Lewis did not want to rematch Vitali and never intended to fight Wlad. To go even further Lewis did not fight everyone... not even half.

    With that being said: if Lewis had won a rematch against McCall for the title he would have been considered a prime. Notice I said "considered".

    So you can't say Wlad was a prime between 1996-2002. It's just not true. We had no prime. In fact fe had several champions- who were ducking and being ducked and none were linear as Lewis threw the WBA belt in the dustbin- and as a result had no clear champion to call our own.

    Unless Wlad loses- just to suit you- and Vitali beats who ever Wlad loses to, then you will see what I'm talking about.

    The heavyweight division was a mess until Vitali and Wlad cleared it up- or started clearing it up. The reason why Wlad get's the better fights is because fans want to pay more to see him: Olympic Gold Medal and all as well as people duck Vitali in addition to Wlad "looking" weaker. Under that circumstance what would you pick? The stronger guy for less money or the weaker guy for more money?

    Odd's are that Haye takes him!

    Cheers!
     
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    #22
  8. Beatle

    Beatle Sheer Analysis Full Member

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    Tyson was the last great heavyweight. Period.

    Lennox was a slow cherry-picking bum, and the Klitschkos are the same as him. And all 3 lost shamelessly in their prime.

    Until he stopped training seriously, Tyson was the best and could have broken Marciano's record if only he had stayed with his trainer Kevin Rooney. Rooney made Tyson train. Cus D'Amato told Tyson to always do what Kevin said. Don King took that responsibility away from Tyson.
     
    Beatle, Jun 1, 2011
    Beatle, Jun 1, 2011
    #23
  9. Beatle

    Beatle Sheer Analysis Full Member

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    Then why does Wlad have to take on all the serious top challengers, and Vitali gets to cherrypick on bums?

    Look at their records: Wlad has to fight Chagaev, Chambers, Brewster, Ibragimov, and now Haye.

    Who has Vitali fought? The only good fighter on his resume is Chris Byrd, who made him look like a fool. Byrd was promptly given to Wlad after Vitali's embarrassing "no mas".

    And Lennox: he was the champion, and guess who he chose to fight? That's right: he chose to fight Vitali, the less talented brother.

    The Vitali deception has to end. He should retire and stop cherrypicking on fat bums like Solis, Arreola and Briggs.
     
    Beatle, Jun 1, 2011
    Beatle, Jun 1, 2011
    #24
  10. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    Vitali was winning that Byrd fight. Wlad has a mixed record against better contenders than Vitali- but that does not make him optimus prime champ. If Wlad is better than Vitali and Wlad has no solid claim to being optimus prime- his former losses and his possible loss to Haye- then we have no optimus prime at this time.

    Until Haye beats Wlad and Vitali then beats Haye and everyone else for those same belts then we will see.

    This is an ongoing discussion to the next or current optimus prime champion!
    :blurp
     
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    #25
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Vitali had the potential to be better than wlad but then he took 4 years out whilst wlad kicked the **** out of everyone not associated with the wbc belt.

    Seriously vitali didn't even fight byrd nor rahman in the aftermath of the lewis fight. He was never a great champion, was it not for injury problems perhaps he would have been but history shows his brother is miles ahead of him. Number 1 ranked heavyweight since 05. It is him win splits the rein with lewis.
     
    lufcrazy, Jun 1, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jun 1, 2011
    #26
  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tyson did an outstanding job, even though most of the fighters were past it or never really s, Mike did a job on them in a way that indicates he was a great fighter on his way blazing a trail forward. He would have beaten Evander at that point in time IMO but then again it may have been a crossroads fight back then. I was invited to the fight, even had the T-shirt sent to me but it never came off. I favored Tyson at the time but who knows.

    Witherspoon would have always been quick work for Mike, Tim only dominated weak opponents like a young and stiff Bruno and Gonzales all of his other wins were weak SD's
     
    Bummy Davis, Jun 1, 2011
    Bummy Davis, Jun 1, 2011
    #27
  13. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    I never had an appreciation for Spoon's power. I guess we were spoiled by Foreman's and Tyson's bone-crunching power!
    :happy
     
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    Pat$$$, Jun 1, 2011
    #28
  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    You could just as easily argue that Wlad is ****ing it up for Vitali.:yep
     
    cuchulain, Jun 2, 2011
    cuchulain, Jun 2, 2011
    #29
  15. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    indeed. No one wants to fight Vitali because Vitali is too strong and too experienced and a little more on the methodical side. Wlad is a little more of an agressor-- sometimes agression is not good for a fighter. He loses controls and opens up. In addition, Wlad panics too much... he get's a tap on the jaw and he starts to get fidgety. I have more respect for Vitali than I do Wlad. The reason why Wlad get's better fights than Vitali is because everyone in the world is ducking Vitali and prefer to fight Wlad because they see an opening.
     
    Pat$$$, Jun 2, 2011
    Pat$$$, Jun 2, 2011
    #30
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