"Joe Louis of '40 vs. Muhammad Ali of '67" in a time machine/fantasy bout. Who wins?

Welcome to the discussion.Louis never wasted unecessary energy, He could hit with devasting combinations at any time in the fight. Any time. Yes Ali had a great chin, but truly not any better than the concrete chin of Max Baer or Paolino Uzcudun. Ali just covered up and moved better than Max Baer and Uzcudun, but sooner or later,an angry Joe Louis [and he would be angry at Ali's antics], with his piston like left-jabs, had to hurt Ali,at some point in time, and Joe Louis we all know, was the greatest finisher that EVER lived.
I always like to quote what a physician said ringside after a Louis knockout,
"the human body was not designed to withstand the blows of Joe Louis,once you were hurt". And I and 54 victims who were kod by Joe Louis, would concur...

 

Ali had a better chin then either of them and his defense and heart was much better. Again, if Tommy Farr could go the distance, Ali would too.

When I talked to Jersey Joe Walcott many years ago, he told me and others that the Greatest heavyweight he ever saw was Muhammad Ali.

 

Jersey Joe was a very sharp guy.

 

ali by late stoppage or ud 15- ali always performed better against the better opponent. his speed and footwork at his peak was too much for any heavy to win more rounds than him. he didn't come close to losing his title in the 60s when he was peak (7 ko's in 9). chuvalo was hard for him - how many rounds did he win outta 15 even tho ali came in at his heaviest ever weight (lack of training perhaps)? mildenburger was hard - he was ko'd - but southpaws looked better v ali for some reason. the best fighters ali faced liston and patterson in the 60s were no contest - even an old patterson could look much better against the more flat footed 70s comeback version (who got hit more and therefore everyone found out how well ali could take shots which never really happened in his first title reign cuz he believed in hit and not be hit and not lie on ropes and take hits lol) which i say frazier was fortunate to face - still great but no peak ali version.

 

Along with Marciano, this could be just about the greatest fight Ali could ask for. Given he's taking punches from the Brown Bomber, Ali will in in the fight of his life. But he has the talent and toughness to weather the storm. Both men wear each other out, but I think Ali's overall superior skills see him eek out a points win. It would be a much harder-fought win than the two against Frazier.

 

Louis by TKO by counter punching it is fact

 

Good points about Tommy Farr Henry, but I then return my volley to you by saying the Ali who had problems with a Doug Jones, or a Ken Norton, certainly would have major hell, with the far more lethal puncher Joe Louis.
So H, maybe it is time for me to declare an Armistice,on this subject and devote my time in watching Lady gaga ! Ugh...:good

 

Agreed, But most people had Ali winning against Jones 7-3, plus Ali wasn't in his prime against either Jones or Norton.

Peace Buddy!

 

Excellent observation! And Ive said this myself in past debates here concerning Ali and Louis. The way to fight Ali wasnt to walk him down ala Liston or Foreman. Or chase him down ala Frazier or Chuvalo. This would play straight into his hands. The way that one fought Ali in my opinion was to slow down the pace and wait for Ali to come to you. Folley demonstrated this and scored on Ali repeatedly. Louis would do the same. Setting the pace by not pursuing. Cutting off the Ring instead of trying to walk Ali down. And Louis was not Folley. Once Ali engaged, Louis would uncoil like a spring greeting Ali with a barrage of hard, hurting punches. Something that a prime Ali had never faced. How Ali reacted this is the core of the debate, IMHO.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how Ali would react to Louis feinting and drawing him in... Kind of don't have an equivalent for that one.

 

There was no heavyweight that pressured more then Frazier.

It's just hard to see Ali getting knocked out by anyone when he took on some of the Greatest punchers in boxing history and none of them, Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, Foster, Frazier and so on, never did it.

 

Can people stop saying Ali/Clay struggled with Cooper!!! He got dropped coz he played around for a bit. He lost maybe one round over two fights!!!!
Jones also is a myth an easy victory that has been blown out of proportion coz Ali/Clay didnt stop him when he said he would

 

I Favor Ali in this matchup....But only slightly. This is one that could certainly go either way. Joe E brought up a good point though and that is the way to fight Ali isn't to chase him or cut off the ring. The best way is to make Ali come to you and then capitalize. Folley tried it with some success but he just wasn't the fighter to take it to the ultimate against Ali. If there was one fighter who could it would be Louis. Frazier put a ton of pressuer on Ali but even still it played into Ali's hands. wasn't easy mind you but still did Plus Frazier tended to go left hook crazy instead of using his right hand more. When I watch his fights against Ali I can see the openings for the right but Joe keeps winging left hooks. Louis wouldn't do that. Both hands would be coming Ali's way in a variety of deadly precision placed punches. Ali fought men with deadly power but not men with the precision and economy of Joe louis....plus deadly power. Louis could punch AND box and had every punch in the book along with blazing fast hands. If Ali wins he does it with speed...after getting severely ratlled with a combo he opts to play it safe and run like hell while pot shotting from afar. Simply wrapping up Joe with his long arms will only find some measure of success as Joe could fight well on the inside. Stick and move is Ali's best chance and that is what I think he would do to eke out a razor thin decision.