Dempsey v Jeffries ????

I still see Dempsey as not being as effective in rounds 8-15 as he was in 1-7, while conversely, I see Jeff coming on strong in those later rounds, as he always did. And knowing that he won't have to go 25 rounds, Jeff's pace would be even more rapid throughout, but especially as the fight progressed, as it always did. Superior experience in rounds 10-15 would give Jeff an edge over a guy who isn't used to going too many rounds. True, Dempsey was such an explosive puncher that he didn't have to go rounds, but like I said, I think Jeff is a guy who definitely takes him rounds and into deep waters, and Jeff was used to pounding on guys late.

 

Dempsey seemed to come on strong and get busier in the only 15 rounder he fought - against Gibbons. He was darting all over the place and firing in plenty of punches in the last 1/3 of the fight. It's on film.

 

True, but Gibbons was doing nothing but covering and grabbing, with a little footwork. Easy to be busy against a guy who is only trying to survive and last, and not fight back or try to win at all.

 

Jeffries,providing he has not shipped too much facial damage ,would be coming on like gangbusters in the latter part of the fight, I should think.
Jeffries was a far more powerful man than Gibbons

 

There's a bit of an assumption regarding Jeffries hitability. I don't disagree that Dempsey would score on Jeffries. But there were LOTS of comments, in Jeffries day, to the effect that Jeffries guarded the critical spots quite well. And, as long as the referee wasn't faint hearted, it's pretty well established that Jeffries isn't going to quite because of pain and cuts. I'm not saying Dempsey couldn't get Jeffries, but he's going to need some beauties to do it.
The same could also be said of Dempsey, eg., Tunney certainly didn't have too hard a time landing 'at all' on a past-prime Dempsey, yet Tunney said it was very hard to get to Dempsey's chin.

Marciano another who was hard to hit really square -- the two who put him (briefly) down weren't just guys with a punch, they were two of the craftier guys you'll ever run across, as well.

 

Well they were mentioned plenty of times in Jeffries lifetime. If they were untrue, don't you think someone would have mentioned it?

Jeffries by all accounts was an all around athlete. He could run the 100 yard dash in 10.5 seconds, which would have been good enough for gold in the 1st or 2nd Olympics ( I think ). In addition is it written he could jump nearly 6 feet. In those days, scientific track shows, and starting blocks did not exist. On the high jump, your feet cleared the bar. there was no such thing as the back flop over the bar.

Who else did Dempsey say he could not beat in his prime? Please list some names. Keep in mind past champs such as Fitz, Corbett, Johnson, Burns, and Dempsey all said Jeffries was the best. These are the fighters of his time.

Be careful with Tunney! He was a proud Irishman, and rather fond of Corbett. Tunney had a war of words with Jeffries. When one fighters goes out of his way to degrade the other, his opinion on him can not be viewed as completely honest. In addition fighters who beat an all time great ( As Tunney did vs. a faded Dempsey ) seldom pick other fighters to defeat their crowing achievement.

 

I havent really seen the actual times mentioned all that much during his boxing career. In fact, i dont know if i have ever seen the actual times ever recorded in an article, just that he used to professional sprint training early on as a youngster. It isnt often mentioned, but Corbett was just as jast, and actually beat Jeffries in a beach sprint in one article i once saw. I dont understand why people dont give Corbett credit for being such an athlete, these days.

I no virtually nothing about athletics, but Let us not forget, that in the early days, the faster runners were not eligible for the olympics because they were professionals. I know that my uncle used to have two names, one for when he ran professionally, so that he could still race for fun at his local athletics club. Also, I highly doubt that the worlds best runners flocked to the one location for the chance at winning a Wreath of flowers at those first few olympics. I am sure that there were hundreds of runners who could have taken gold at the first couple of Olympics. And i doubt that any non professionals put in anywhere near the sprint training that professional boxers did. It wouldnt be surprising if many boxers were capable of competing at this level.

Again, i have never seen contemporary reference to these feats. It is something which seems to be given far more emphasis nowadays than it ever was back then. I tend to suggest that it is because it wasnt that big a deal back then. I have seen an article with Herbert Slade placing third in the New Zealand shot put championship, Alex Greggains (i think it was) winning a big swimming race with the best swimmers in the US, and i am sure there are more. I get the feeling that boxers were pretty much the main and only professional athletes, and as a result it stands to reason that in most sports they were right up there with the best in the world, because the other sports goers were more part time hobbyists. I seriously doubt that Jeffries would be making any challengers to Usain Bolt if he were around today.


Who else did Dempsey say he could not beat in his prime? Please list some names. Keep in mind past champs such as Fitz, Corbett, Johnson, Burns, and Dempsey all said Jeffries was the best. These are the fighters of his time.



Be careful with Tunney! He was a proud Irishman, and rather fond of Corbett. Tunney had a war of words with Jeffries. When one fighters goes out of his way to degrade the other, his opinion on him can not be viewed as completely honest. In addition fighters who beat an all time great ( As Tunney did vs. a faded Dempsey ) seldom pick other fighters to defeat their crowing achievement.[/QUOTE]

 

It is all about your take on Jeffries ... if you view him as a slow, ponderous, crude guy like many do then Dempsey pounds him raw ... however, after reading and reading Adam's excellent book many times I'm starting to believe that Jeffries was one of histories forgotten gems and perhaps now the most under rated former champion ... the Jeffris of the second Corbett and Munroe fights may have done to Dempsey what Foreman did to Frazier ...

 

I think you have to admit Jeff was a bit of a shrinking violet. He clearly held superior physical advantages over opponents but continued to travel the safety first, wear them down route. I never get the feeling he fully utilized his physicality. And I think Jeff's power, in the immediate sense, is a bit over-rated. He was definitely more a thudder, attrition guy whereas Dempsey was concussive lightning. Given their proclivities for differing pace, and the styles against which both had the most success in their respective careers, I think it is Dempsey who damages Jeff too much too early and takes him out, somewhat belatedly, near round 10.

 

I ran a 10.5 100 yard when 14 and never amounted to much as a sprinter. It is not an impressive time by almost any standard. The 1896 Olympics were an exhibition, not a real athletic contest. Tom Burke, the 100 meter winner, would never do anything else of note in the sport and won the 100 because other, better sprinters could not make the trip. By 1908, the record time was 10.6 for the 100 meters, a 9.5 equivalent for the 100 yards, much faster. And actually, you still needed to get your feet over the bar in the high jump back then. The scissor style was favored in his day and the record was 6-7, much better than 5-11.


I think Jeff's athletic prowess is a bit glorified, especially considering all the midgets posing as heavies back in his day.

 

I bet it'd be a fun fight, regardless. You know there'd be some heavy leather swapped in this one. I'd be curious to see how they took eachother's punches; Answer a lot of questions about either guy.

 

Possible....... I like Jeff, but his defenses against aging small fries like "Corby & Fitz" does bother me.....
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I LIKE JIMMY JEFF!!bbb:hi:

MR.BILL:hat