¿Which of them do you think would give Prime Ali a more worthy fight?

I'm not going to get involved in the arguing i've made it a rule to myself not to argue with anyone online anymore. I'm not singling anyone out but there's more important things in life than going back and forth arguing on a boxing forum that no one can conclusively prove whether they're right or wrong.

My opinion of Norton is he faced a very good version of Ali in their 2nd fight for me that was Ali at his sharpest in the 1970s and reminiscent of his prime in 1960s in regards to his sharpness and movement. And Norton still had a very close fight with Ali for me that is more impressive than beating the version of Ali in their 1st fight.

Norton was a bit past his prime vs a prime Holmes and gave him a very close fight in one of the greatest Heavyweight fights in history.

Norton has very good performances against 2 Heavyweights that are rated in the top 5 of all time and that simply cannot be ignored.

Young was a top 3 ranked Heavyweight in 1975, 1976, & 1977 yes his record when he finished his career was not the prettiest. But Norton fought him when he was in his prime. Young between 1974-1977 only had 1 loss and that was to Ali in a very controversial decision, Young during this period had a draw vs Shavers, 2 wins over Lyle, big win over Foreman, hence Norton's win vs Young who was ranked as the number 2 Heavyweight in the world is a good win.

The way i look at it Norton had an awkward style but he was one of the most well conditioned Heavyweights of time, one of the best body punchers of all time at Heavyweight, good power.

Do i think Norton is a great ? no but i'd class him as very good and i think he'd do well vs alot of notable Heavyweights for example....Usyk, Fury, Witherspoon, Holyfield, etc.

Yes he'd probably be found wanting against some of the real big hitters but i also think Norton get's a bit undersold in regards to people thinking he loses to every somewhat notable Heavyweight who can hit.

Holmes had 15 stoppages in 20 of his world title fights and Holmes literally teed off on Norton in the 13th round of their fight, yet Norton still comeback and had a very strong 14th round and a good 15th round.

And just to finally end my rambling here's my scorecards of Norton's fights.

Larry Holmes vs Ken Norton

1 Holmes
2 Holmes
3 Holmes
4 Holmes
5 Holmes
6 Holmes
7 Norton
8 Norton
9 Holmes
10 Norton
11 Norton
12 Norton
13 Holmes
14 Norton
15 Norton

143-142 Holmes

Ken Norton vs Jimmy Young

1 Young
2 Young
3 Young
4 Norton
5 Norton
6 Norton
7 Norton
8 Norton
9 Norton
10 Young
11 Norton
12 Young
13 Young
14 Young
15 Norton

143-142 Norton

Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali 1

1 Ali
2 Norton
3 Ali
4 Norton
5 Norton
6 Norton
7 Norton
8 Ali
9 Norton
10 Norton
11 Ali
12 Norton

116-112 Norton

Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali 2

1 Ali
2 Ali
3 Ali
4 Ali
5 Norton
6 Ali
7 Norton
8 Norton
9 Ali
10 Norton
11 Norton
12 Ali

115-113 Ali

Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali 3

1 Ali
2 Norton
3 Norton
4 Norton
5 Norton
6 Norton
7 Ali
8 Norton
9 Ali
10 Ali
11 Ali
12 Norton
13 Norton
14 Ali
15 Ali

143-142 Norton

 

Also just to add Jack Dempsey is winning this poll but I remember Cus D'Amato saying that Dempsey would be very vulnerable to Ali's style the way he leans forward he'd be neutralized by Ali's jabs.

So I'm not sure I agree with majority opinion in this case.

 

I mean, you're talking to a guy who gives decent chances to several of the modern guys, so a little disagreement with the majority isn't anything to worry about.

 

As an aside on this, it's a shame more people don't try to dig up the (relatively rare) commentaries by actual experts about hypothetical fights we discuss. People like D'Amato, who have seen the older guys on film, researched them, and trained their own would champions world seem to be one useful source of information. Still should be read critically, but at least use them...

 

Looking at the guys listed in this thread my picks would be Povetkin, Ibeabuchi, just because of their size, power, and they are some of the more notable Heavyweights of their era.

Especially if Povetkin is on PEDs aswell.

 

Go to 4:47 that's when Cus starts talking about Ali/Dempsey this is actually a good respectful debate between a very wise man of boxing and a great fighter I wish more conversations were like this.

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Yeah, I think those are the most reasonable choices as well, actually. Povetkin in particular.

@Seamus's suggestion of Tua is sort of interesting, in a funny sort of way, although I'm pretty certain he offered it as a deadpan joke. Tua has the right Sunday punch, aggression, and potential workrate for the job. But in practice, he tended to get outboxed by everybody, so the on-paper advantages probably aren't coming through for him.

 

I really wish sometimes that Ali wasn't such a ballyhoo man. He fought so many famous fighters, and saw even more live and in film, and there are a fair number of footage / interviews like this where he gives his opinions. But it's hard to know how much he's playing to the audience.