¿Why does the public underestimate Mike Tyson's resume so much?

Lots of "Tyson's resume is much better than everyone says" without having the stones to qualify what that means. But that must mean that it's a top 5 resume since no one seems to have any problems with having it in the top 10.

So stop your whining and clearly state that you think that Tyson has a top 5 resume and be prepared to defend that. Otherwise stop this crying about how underrated his resume is.

 

Top 5. Yikes. That means in the company of prime Ali, Holyfield, Holmes, Lewis. Louis. That would probably put him above Frazier.

I don't rate him that high, though I certainly have him top 10.

H2h he's top 5 imo.

 

I think he was in the top 5 h2h in the thread that was made about that a while ago. At least at some point.

So on this forum he's around top 5 h2h and top 10 resume wise, so those that call him underrated must have him higher than so. I'm just waiting for them to clearly come out and state that.

 

Not really much reason to go point by point and reiterate things but I’ll make a few. I appreciate your takes and give you a tip of the cap for your points, which I respect. My numbered points below don’t correlate to the numbers above, btw, as I’m responding to comments scattered throughout your response.

1) Tyson was dominant during a period of time when the division was at a low point post-Holmes with a bunch of leftovers he definitely cleaned up — but he didn’t really dominate Smith or Tucker … he kind of slogged through a couple of guys who held belts but weren’t exactly considered all that.

He certainly ran through Berbick and Spinks, but Trevor wasn’t more than another belt holder in a sea of belthoders and Spinks, while I’ll grant that I don’t think any version of him beats a prime Tyson, was past it with shot knees. Just not equipped for Tyson’s blitz.

2) I think the Tyson of Spinks either gets Buster out quickly with his fast-car rush OR he gets dominated after that.

Holyfield in training for Tyson sparred specifically for Mike’s start. They’d do 30-seconds of having a guy bum-rush him at the opening bell and then stop it, then repeat it over and over. Situational sparring. I’ve read accounts where until like two weeks before the first Holy-Tyson fight his camp was scared that Evander just wasn’t getting it … the sparring partner would rush out like Tyson and pretty much beat him up. Then about two weeks out it clicked and Holy started handling it.

Tyson of Spinks is 91 seconds, about 18 of which Michael was on the canvas. There’s nothing in his history that suggests he could maintain that for several rounds, much less an entire fight. He often seemed to lose interest or get frustrated when he didn’t get opponents out of there quickly and it would devolve into kind of a one-two-hold style slog (Smith, Tucker, several other fights that went longer than couple rounds).

Buster’s jab would always give Mike problems. Maybe Tyson of Spinks rushes out and clocks Tokyo Douglas … or maybe Bus survives the opening onslaught and takes over. I could see either scenario playing out.

3) As far as guys you mentioned (Liston, Holyfield, Bowe, etc) I would say Mike fell off a cliff after a relatively brief period of ‘dominance.’

Liston’s period of dominance didn’t start when he won the title because he was avoided — he cleaned out a division and capped that by winning the the title, and when he got outclassed it was by the rising greatest heavyweight ever, not a 38-1 longshot who never did anything else. Tyson’s pre-title resume is beating Quick Tillis and Marvis Frazier.

I don’t see Holyfield’s fall-off … he had ups and downs but was relevant for years. Bowe I don’t think is quite on this tier but his fall was probably similar to Tyson’s. Norton never won a title fight so I’m not sure how he fits into this discussion.

 

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Lewis
4. Wlad
5. Tyson

 

Good. That's a clear statement. Holmes and probably Holy are above for me. But I'd have no real problems with seven resume wise.

 

I rank Holyfield lower than Tyson, Wlad, and Holmes due to PED use and lack of a cohesive reign. I might also put Marciano ahead of him.

I linked a thread I created earlier in this thread that addresses why I have Tyson ahead of Holmes (post 39).

 

Yeah, I think I wrote in that thread a while ago. I disagreed with you, as per usual.

But I do think you have a point that Holy can be knocked down due to PED use.

 

The closeness of the second Bowe fight suggests that he might never have beaten him without PEDs. And it's unlikely that he would've rebounded to the same level in the mid to late 90s without PEDs.

 

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Lewis

 

Great post, and that's fascinating about the Tyson/Holyfield I training.

 

SousPatty.....

Holyfield Holyfield Holyfield Holyfield............................

What part of sitting more than three years in jail and fighting less than a dozen rounds in close to almost five years dont you get Einstein ?

Ali never was in jail, he could do whatever he wanted except fighting in a Pro bout, he could train spar eat decent food or hang out with close friends..................at little different then sitting in a cell.

Name me ONE fighter who got better after years in jail.............

Tyson self destructed way before jail, he and only himself are to blame for that.

But the notion that Holyfield is this Superhero is absurd, that guy lost almost every single time he stepped up..............he won three out of 10 fights vs Bowe/Moorer/Lewis/Ruiz, that is a fact...................Tyson Tyson Tyson , yeah.

Tucker/Bonehugger won "maybe" four rounds out of 24 , pretty much a white wash.

 

I don't know who the whole public is but this that do or fall into the Teddy Atlas crap that they were beaten before entering the ring are clueless.

 

1) James Scott

2) I never said Holyfield was a superhero. He was considered washed up and still beat Tyson twice.

EDIT: A loophole, for sure, but Bernard Hopkins, Dwight Muhammad Qawi and Clifford Etienne got better after years in prison, as that’s where they learned to box. Turned pro when they got out.

 

Which he was responsible for. Which he is held accountable for. Excuses, excuses.