Érik Morales vs. Juan Manuel Márquez

You're aware that John had a draw with freaking Rocky Juarez who a slightly past it Barrera punished? Hell in the second fight between them Barrera turned the Juarez fight into a snoozer with his superior technical ability.

And that Norwood picked up a loss against Derrick Gainer?

 

Are you aware that Norwood and John age?

Are you aware that Rocky Juarez beat the snot out of MAB in their first fight. Most boxing fans I know scored for Rocky that night.

Are you aware that MAB ran for dear life and made the lead footed Rocky Juarez have to chase in the rematch?

Are you aware that Juan Manuel Marquez stood in the pocket against the same Rocky and beat the snot out of him 12 round out of 12?


Are you aware that Rocky Juarez decisioned Zahir Raheem, the slick Chris John type mover that dominated Erik Morales and made him look like a rank amateur????

Are you aware that Erik Morales looked like **** vs Ingin Chi, vs Espadas??????

"Are you aware?"
"Are you aware?"
"Are you aware?"


nutnut:nut

Now this clown wants to credit MAB for turing fights into snoozefests? :rofl:rofl:rofl

 

The only man Morales ever lost to in his prime was Marco Antonio Barrera.

I watched the Chris John fight against Rocky Juarez. He was being hyped as a technical fighter coming to America. Then Juarez comes close to finishing him late in the fight. Nothing special.

Most people had Juarez Barrera I a draw. That was a beaten down and worn out Barrera coming off of 3 wars with Morales and a savage career threatening thrashing by Pacqiuao.

And Barrera still had enough left in the tank to technically school Juarez in the rematch. He had that left jab going and schooled a man while being past prime. Shows how much skill Barrera really had.

 

On those John vs Juarez fights.
Those are fights now for John where he's fighting out of his hometown and into the US.
There isn't any doubt that John took those fights looking to impress, but because in order to impress you have to do some engagement, John was left looking vulnerable not being in his hometown where he knew all he had to do was show up.
No hometown, no hometown referee! :


As for Marquez vs MAB when it would have mattered most, at 126 lbs?
It was MAB's decision not to fight Marquez.
When MAB got a gift decision vs Morales in their 126 lbs fight, Marquez had publicly called out the winner, but instead MAB made up some mumbo jumbo about him not being a true featherweight and that he might decide to go back down to 122 lbs.
MAB remained at 126 lbs, but he conveniently dumped the 126 lbs title and chose not to defend it.
An obvious duck, but of course you will defend MAB for that.:nut

When word got out to Marqeuz what MAB had said, Marquez stated, "No problem, I can make 122 lbs no problem!"

MAB wanted no part of Juan Manuel Marquez.

When they finally did meet at 130 lbs it was only because he was forced to by GBP who billed that card for the fight to meet Manny Pacquiao.
At that point MAB had a stake and was part of GBP, but because GBP had forced him to fight Marquez and Oscar Delahoya didn't buy him the judges, he got mad and left GBP.

Scored are......."116-111 116-111 and 118-109, all in favor and NEW Superfeatherweight champion of the world, Juan, "Dinamita" Maaarrrrquuueeeezzzzzzz! :bbb


Crybaby MAB went running to the media talking down on GBP and somehow suggesting that they had bought off the judges for Marquez.:rofl
Luckily for MAB, Pacquiao, Roach and company knew the real deal was Marquez and had decided to fight MAB the loser of that elimination anyways.
MAB made good of his opportunity by fighting the way he always does in rematches when he's lost the first fight, timid and scared.
He fought that way in the Junior Jones rematch, the Pacquiao rematch, and the Juarez rematch.
Only fight he could win was vs Juarez as he's the only one of the three who fights as if his feet were stuck in cement.


:hi::hi::hi: :dead

 

Of course the MAB JMM fight matters most at 126 pounds. Hard for anybody to say MAB is a ducker though. He spent his prime years in a trilogy with Morales and fighting top featherweights in Hamed and Pacquiao. He took on 3 elite guys seemingly on top of their divisions. There is only so much room on the schedule when you take 5 superfights in 5 years. MAB was averaging a megafight every year for a 5 year period. No wonder he was not the same years later.

So now you're saying that you were overrating Chris John because he was lost to freaking Rocky Juarez? So you finally agree with me? Good, now we're all cleared up on that one.

I have a hard time believing that a technical fighter like Morales can't outdo a Chris John and do a number on Marquez from 122-130 pounds.

 

I stand by the merits of the case I've made.

The consensus say's Marqeuz beat both Norwood and John.
The consensus does not say Morales beat the slick Zahir Raheem.
I don't know anyone that has voiced Raheeem didn't clearly beat Erik Morales, and I would certainly rate Chris John a better fighter than I would Zahir Raheem.

Now scoot Tinman, you've been diposed of.
Outta here!:dead

 

Yet the poll is 36-13-2 for Morales at 126 pounds.

Dispose that.

 

That's closer than I would have thought in a forum full of Pacturds still upset over KTFO6!:deal

Deal with it Pacturd!!!:bbb

 

×2 Oscar, MAB, Cotto natural lefties converted to orthodox. Tho I will say if you rewatch the first rounds of the Pacquiao-Barrera rematch, MAB was holding his own. Especially in the 1rst or 2nd round he was actually getting the better of some exchanges with Pacquiao. MAB simply couldn't sustain his offense, something that hurt him in the 1rst Morales fight too and something that Marquez does very well. I agree the right hand is essential against a southpaw, but so is the left hook, tho it is far less popular against southpaws. Marquez liked to use a right hand lead followed by a left hook to the body, something not many fighters were able to do against Pacquiao. Marquez always seemed to have the better strategies and gameplans, but that doesn't make him more skillful than MAB or Morales imo. MAB seemed to have the fastest hands of the 3, but his footspeed never matched his handspeed. Morales never had to depend on speed, he'd beat much faster fighters with feinting, a forgotten art. Marquez feinted very well, but not like Morales.

 

Something about Pacquiao just takes a fighters left hook away.
When I saw his fights with MAB, I noticed Pacquiao consistenly use his right glove to pickoff MAB's jabs. MAB couldn't get his jab going because of that. At that point, MAB has to hammer his fight in, but there's just now consistency or flow to the way he marks and triggers his right hand, its like he needs to jab so he can let go a one two.
So once Pacquiao takes away his jab, MAB is pretty much a lost puppy who cant do much.

This is where versatility and the repertioire in a fighters diposal comes to play. Marquez just has more of a repertoire and does more things well than MAB.
Where MAB likes to lead with the jab and move to the side, Marquez can do it just as well, but unlike MAB, Marquez mixes his punch selection and doesn't let a fighter see the same sequences and the same punch over and over again.
The more versatile fighter and certainly the one that can punch just as effective with either hand is one Juan Manuel Marquez.

Boxing ablility....

1 Juan Manuel Marquez
2 Erik Morales
3 MAB

MAB is quick with the jab, but its not as hard as Marquez'.
MAB as well is quick with the one two, but when you're talking about 3+ punches, Marquez is by far faster and more fluid in multipunch combination exchanges.


Next time you watch Marquez vs MAB, pay attention to Marquez being forced to lead.
Nacho Beristain said from the beginning that his fighter would be forced to have to initiate because of MAB being the sentimental favorite would grant him the benefit of rounds with little activity.
So Marquez lead, MAB wanting that countered Marquez' lead, but what MAB wasn't counting on was Marquez quick on the recounter and closing the exchanges by offering and connecting with the cleaner and harder blow at the end.
Its called countering the counter, and Marquez did it repeatedely it caught the fancy of the jugdges as they had it wide for Marquez, starting and closing the exchanges.

Marquez just a more rounded fighter with more refined tools at his disposal.


Of note, the fact that those fighters you mentioned are converted lefties is why their right hands are on the weak side.

An orthodox fighter will strengthen their weak hand by jabbing a lot with it.
If you're a conventional righty, try turning southpaw and throwing straight left hands with power? The snap and power on it just isn't there, but it is there if you hook with that left hand from the righty stance.
If MAB and DLH are naturally lefties, I can see where throwing a straight right hand from a right stance wouldn't quite have the same snap to it. They could probably throw harder straight lefts from a southpaw stance.

 

In fairness to Juarez, he came through at a time when the featherweight division was stacked.

Lost his title fights to Humberto Soto, MAB twice, Marquez, and twice to Chris John.

6 title shots and was only dominated against Juan Manuel Marquez.

I thought he won the first MAB fight by landing much cleaner and harder than MAB.
MAB totally changed his approach in the rematch and fought a run and jab fight which was a total nightmare for a fighter like Juarez who has lead feet.
The first John fight could have easily gone his way, though a draw was probably the right decision. Had John out on his feet both fights in the last round.

Overall I'd say Juarez did well with what he had. He was a fundamentally sound fighter with physical and athletic limitations.
Wasn't quick nor fast of either hand or feet, was a good puncher not a concussive puncher.
Rocky did well in a rich featherweight era.