Érik Morales vs. Juan Manuel Márquez

Updated standings:

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16-7-0 Morales

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10-9-5 Márquez

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21-2-0 Márquez

38-27-5 edge to Márquez overall.

 

They weren't near prime in E2, where Márquez currently has a slight edge in voting? :think

 

Oh yeah? Like, for instance, Barrera, Casamayor, Polo, Fedchenko, Juarez, Peden (whose style was aggressive but had to be technical by necessity to overcome his poor hand speed with timing and wits and be effective) or Gainer (who's often considered more of a speed-and-reflexes guy relying on athletic talent in the mold of his buddy & mentor RJJ, unfairly...and whom the Flushing Flash Kevin Kelley once called the most skillful pure technician he ever fought. Reflect on who Kelley fought in his career for a minute and let that sink in...) you mean?

Are you basing that on the loss to Mayweather? Great bigger man beats a great smaller man, that is like boxing truism #1. Oh and there is that small matter of the larger guy that beat him being the p4p #1 of his freaking generation . :roll:

...on the loss to Norwood? I'm not going to say he was "green" as he was a six year veteran but that was a ridiculously steep, abrupt jump up in class for Márquez, with Freddie smack dab in his prime, well-seasoned, and with bundles of experience at the upper echelons - and he was robbed to boot.

That disappointing night in Tenggarong? I've never considered that one to be an outright gift decision (as Norwood and Pac I-III were) - a draw was probably the correct score - but it was very badly officiated and without the deductions it ought to have been close but clear for Márquez. A tight chess match with a prime Dragon is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, nor a sign of struggling with technical boxers.

I think we need to slow our roll here if we are saying the guy in this match-up that struggles with technical boxers is Márquez and not the one that got COMPREHENSIVELY SCHOOLED BY ZAHIR RAHEEM OF ALL PEOPLE.

..we are in full agreement that Raheem isn't a flew on the ass of Mayweather, or John, or Norwood...are we not?

 

FFS, he probably fought more world-ranked "technical boxers" than he did come forward sluggers or swarmers, despite his identity-defining reputation for using opponents' momentum against them like a judoka and dissecting them as they came forward using razor-edged counter punching.

Katsidis, Baby Bull, Alvarado, maybe Salido and to an extent Jandaeng (though he's more of a boxer-puncher, as is Mile High Mike) ...and, uh, that's about it.

 

For the record, even though I do acknowledge being a JMM fan-boy, I would, to be fair, just as summarily and vehemently oppose groundless claims made to disparage Morales or fluff up Márquez's chances in this match-up were they invalid or poorly thought out.

Morales is a legend and was probably more well-rounded than Márquez (who spent most of his career a countering specialist) and does have advantages in this match-up - but he is also something of a mythical folk hero among fans, especially on this forum, and Márquez is something of a polarizing figure, so I think a lot of the arguments presented are rooted more in emotion and fallacy (esp. from the contingent with ulterior motives supporting a certain Filipino both have in common on their résumés) than in genuine objective analysis.

Suggesting that Márquez would be doomed by Morales' technical skill without calling that a double edged sword no less true in reverse is silly.

 

See, this, for instance, holds no water and I hope it was just trolling on Willie's part. Morales is awesome, occupying a space in the all-time rankings in VERY close proximity to Márquez, regardless of who you put first (or think would be the better man h2h)

 

Just to demonstrate what I mean and play devil's advocate here for just a moment - while I do pick Márquez with some measure of confidence in Epoch 3 and find his leading the poll there by a considerable margin unsurprising, I don't think it would be a rout or anything. Morales really did find the fountain of youth for a brief spell there and while his efforts in Maidana, Cano, and Garcia I may not have been enough to convince me he'd get the nod over Márquez, they are enough for me to believe he would bank a few clear rounds, probably in the first half, and maybe even will his way to a knockdown or two or perhaps open some cuts on Márquez. I heavily favor Márquez but don't believe for a second it would be a walk in the park.

 

...and don't forget turning southpaw down the stretch with Pac. :shock: What a cheekily brash and bad ass move that was. Moments like that make up a big part of the reason his mythic folk hero status is well deserved. :good

 

Eh, that's pushing it.

Meeting then unbeaten and widely feared pound for pound king Diego Corrales in the center of the ring from the first bell and initiating most of the offense while never straying beyond mid-range is pretty damn courageous, IMO.