#1 Muhammad Ali vs #2 Joe Louis ?

The fight was on TV recently, both men looked a bit gassed after round 4, but Ali had that extra tank later on.

Each time you watch that fight, you realise something different.

One question which i asked was, where was Foremans uppercuts in that fight? he must have thrown about 3 if that. Especially in close quarters and in the clinches?

 

Prime for prime I think Ali would win but i could imagine Louis knocking out or stopping pre Liston Ali.

 

I see this as a highly plausible scenario (although it seems the concept of Ali possibly being stopped is blasphemous to some).

If one looks at Ali's 4 (probable) greatest career rivals Liston, Frazier, Norton & Foreman, the irony is that the 2 who gave him the most fits, Frazier & Norton were not perce3ived as "monsters" in the same way as Liston & Foreman were, but they both had 15 round stamina, unlike Liston & Foreman.

Ali outlasted both Liston & Foreman but did not outlast Frazier & Norton - they stayed with Ali all the way stamina wise. Louis could do this too, when you add the fact that Louis had a more complete arsenal than both Norton & Frazier, this makes him (imo) a constant threat to Ali through all 15 rounds.

I think its an oversimplification to say that because Ali stood up to punchers like Shavers, Foreman etc he would CATEGORICALLY withstand Louis' assaults, he was floored & buzzed by single shots so it's not impossible that the combination punching of Louis and Louis' superb finishing ability would take Ali out.

Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

A case can be made for both to win this fight, but Joe Louis would certainly imo have been capable of buzzing, flooring and combination punching Ali to defeat.

Just my $ 0.02 worth...

 

Out of anyone, id pick Tyson as the only guy who could stop Ali, he had the speed and power and a great left hook. There is only a small window for that happen however and thats only if a young Ali got too ****y against Tyson and pays the price. Other than that, i dont see anyone at heavyweight ever stopping Ali.

You'll need more than just 15 round stamina if you're going to beat Ali. Frazier and Norton caused certain stylistic problems for him, it wasnt the stamina and anyway Louis doesnt bring the heat like Frazier did. Ali would be much more comfortable with Louis than he would with Frazier. If anything Louis has MUCH more in common with Liston, than he does with Frazier/Norton. And Liston had a longer reach than Louis as well.

Sorry it doesnt work like that, as mentioned earlier, both Frazier/Norton posed stylistic problems for Ali, there were plenty of other guys who went 15 rounds with Ali and they got hammered. Just because Louis can go 15 rounds does not automatically mean Louis is going to give Ali hell. Louis wont be a constant threat because Alis footwork and handspeed is superior to Louis and anyone Louis ever fought. I honestly believe, against a peak Ali, Louis will look like a fish out of water.

Louis combination punching only works on stationary fighters, Ali is anything but. Ali wont just stand there and let Louis unload on him.

I dont disagree with you, anything can happen, but my money is on the guy with a great chin, great recovery skills, a will to win, unparallel handspeed and footwork against the guy with very slow feet (No disrepect to Louis)

Ali beat a variety of styles and he did beat Liston who has a lot in common with Louis. The only similar fighter to Ali that Louis fought was Billy Conn and we know what happened there (until Conn got too carried away)

 

By fighters with a totally different style to Louis'

Conn was beating Louis until he started trading with him

That post to me suggested you were saying because Louis can go 15 like Norton/Frazier he can beat Ali unlike Foreman/Liston who couldnt do the 15.

 

I brought this up in another thread so I have to take issue with this - of hi top level fights I think I came up with a grand total of ZERO fights where Frazier actually KNOCKED OUT the guy for a 10 count - Ellis went down got up and back in his corner then got pulled out very caringly by Dundee? Ali got up at 2? Chuvalo stopped and quit on a facial injury? Quarry stopped on his feet? Stander was he stopped on cuts aswell? Bonavena & bugner weren't stopped? Foster was Fraziers most devasting knockout I think - and Foster was struggling up just after 10 so he wasn't 'put to sleep'? Even the grey ashen has been version if Machen was stopped on his feet?

 

True. Frazier was very good at forcing stoppages, but I don't know exactly how many conventional knockouts he actually scored.

 

Frazier actually knocked out very few men.His power is a bit overated ,imo, he was a grinder.

 

Exactly. He wore down his men through attrition and an accumulation of many punches to the body and head, until his foe eventually crumbled. This tactic would be difficult to force against a much larger and more durable opponent, as the amount of energy it would require would be taxing. Joe Louis of course, wasn't much bigger than Frazier. and I have always felt that Frazier's smothering style and left hook would have given him problems.

 

I was merely going by his highlight videos :good

 

Are you sure you didn't read it in one of mike Tyson's books??:rofl

 

No i asked Ian Darke because he knows everything about boxing even more than the boxers themselves. :good

Holyfield needs to bow down and kiss Ian Darkes ring because Darke knows much more about Tyson than Holyfield ever did (according to you anyway)

 

Tyson needs to bow down and salute the vastly superior Holyfield for giving him a boxing lesson!

 

Ali just keeps hitting Joe Louis with right hand leads. Low left hand, and far too slow at getting his own shots off to trouble Ali. Can't win from the outside, and not quick enough to get inside.