11 years ago today: Miguel Ángel "Junito" Cotto Vázquez vs. Antonio "Tornado" Margarito Montiel II

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Dec 3, 2023.


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  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Not only that, in his immediate rebound from the Mosley defeat - before suffering the further demoralizing and physically damaging Pacquiao loss - he fought in a very un-Mexican way against countryman Roberto "Amenaza" García. This is a tough and heavy-handed guy but someone a pre-NaazimGate version of Margarito would have been universally favored to become the first to stop, as he is 10x slower than even Marg himself and has zero defense. Tony scored a quick flash knockdown in the 1st but spent the rest of the night literally running away. He still threw a high volume of combinations, if less than his usual - but pretty much all on the backfoot. It was surreal to see, of all people, Margarito almost boxing "cute".

    He boxed, dare I say, like someone that no longer has faith in a certain good luck charm / equalizer.
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    #16
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  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    That became the popular mythmaking narrative online but the video doesn't bear it out (nor did my scorecard nor anybody else's in the live RBR here)
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    #17
  3. cslb

    cslb Puerto Rican Uppercut Full Member

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    The convincing thing for me is that Arum, the most litigious promoter in history, didn’t appeal the decision of the CSAC to the Superior Court. The decisions of the CSAC have been overturned before but even though Arum complained about the decision, he wasn’t confident enough in the outcome to file an appeal.
     
    cslb, Dec 4, 2023
    cslb, Dec 4, 2023
    #18
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  4. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    Great post my friend that is exactly what happened I was ringside for that fight Tony was continually calling Fight why wont you Fight !!There were 3 supposed doctors in the ring at the end. They knew from round 2 that Tony couldn't see out of that eye but did they stop the fight then ?? Hell no they waited till they saw Tony beating his chest at Cotto as he slumped in his corner only they did the jump in the ring. Look at Cottos face it was starting to fall apart like the first time. It was blatant they stopped that fight to save Cotto the embarrassment of Quitting again not Tony's eye. I asked one of those clowns" Who did you stop that fight to save It sure wasn't Margarito & you know it" He practically ran from ringside he knew I was right. Another round & Cottos face would have been a bloody mess like the last time he was beat up worse than Tony apart from his eye due mainly to Cotto's head.
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #19
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  5. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    Watch it my friend watch Tony beating his chest at Cotto as he slumps in the corner. Tony would never have quit in that fight or any other
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #20
  6. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    You must remember IB that Tony had been banned for over 2 years they took his boxing license away so he couldn't even train let alone fight to earn a living. It was Pac man that beat Margarito. Quitto Cotto could never have legitimatel;y beaten him. I was at that fight it was just up the road for me. Robert Garcia complained about Freddie stacking Pac's wraps & asked for them to be removed. Freddie refused saying " Its legal to stack them in Texas now just like Nevada" They ruled in Freddie's favour . Ive always wondered if that could have been the reason Tony's eye was permanently damaged. Never seen Pac punch as hard or Tony 's eye get blown up like that in any other fight. Tonys strategy in his fights was "Cmon fight me beat on me all you want when you get tired I'll just knock your ass out" He took that line from my old buddy Randall Tex Cobb
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #21
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    "All due respect, marm, but I'd like to speak with Pa Malarkey, if the man of the house is at liberty..."

    Marg wasn't coming on, Siege. The thumping of his chest? That's theater. That's what Mexican fighters do, whether winning or losing especially when they're in with a bitter rival having a tough battle. Bravado, plain & simple.

    Cotto's face was marked up no doubt (and if you want to give Margarito credit for managing to do that much visible damage despite his eye being FUBAR from very early on - then yeah sure, that is laudable - but he didn't come close to winning any rounds except maybe the 5th, and certainly none of the last three completed) but Marg's was dogmeat.

    Posture and body language between rounds is fun to speculate on, but in the real world when scoring we hone in on the three minutes bell to bell - what actually happens while the clock is ticking? I'm sure you had fun at ringside, CJ (and were you teetotaling with a completely lucid eye? o_O) but the HBO cameras caught the action all pretty clearly in Hi-Def so we had at least as good a view of things as you did there. Then, what did we all see transpire? Well, on nine occasions (eight if you want to call the 5th close, as Lederman and some fans did give it to Marg), Cotto was the clearly better man for a period of 180 seconds. Nothing that happened between the bells of the 9th round made it seem like Cotto suddenly collapsing any moment as soon as a 10th round started was the smart bet. Nothing thrown at him by Margarito wasn't shrugged off and countered with harder, flusher shots.

    Cotto's a little diva *****, on that much CST and I and you agree - so yeah of course he was looking nervous and having PTSD about 2008 reaching those same waters. But if you analyze the actual fighting that happened, no, Marg was never "coming on". He lost the ninth big, maybe not as big as the seventh or eighth, but still big.
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    #22
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  8. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    I was sat not far from Cotto's corner I think he knew he couldn't last the distance It would have only taken one hard shot from Tony to put him away. That supposed doc didn't know what to say he knew I was right . If it was a genuine stoppage they'd have argued it. Its sad its too late now They ruined Tony's good name & career based on Naz Richardson's BS claim about Plaster Blocks, that no one else saw & never existed.
    Read the CSAC's statement " We are revoking Mr Margarito's licese to box in Ca because we STILL believe he MAY have been trying to load his gloves" LOL Hardly the US law a suspect is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law Says it all for me they wanted him out of the way but Floyd & co weren't interested in fighting him Scared to more like
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #23
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Okay but Ceej...here on earth, in this universe/timeline, during the 27 minutes the official round clock was active and in particular down the stretch there during R9... Tony wasn't throwing any "hard shots". He was throwing weak sloppy flurries, half at Cotto's body and half at his head, none of them doing a damn thing. Cotto comfortably stood in with Margarito, absorbing that stuff, and returning superior firepower. The idea that Margarito who never was a Deontay Wilderesque one punch KO artist was going to suddenly wind up and land something ferocious with fast-twitch muscles that already looked to be drowning in lactic acid, is pure fantasy, man. Come on.
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    #24
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Cross-pollinating from the Classic sister-thread:

     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 4, 2023
    #25
  11. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

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    Yeah, I'm well aware, and all of that was circumstantial evidence at best, it never swayed me in the least.

    I disagree, the 9th was anything but dominant. Now sure, you can give it to Cotto, I have no issue with that, but the tenor of the fight was definitely starting to shift. Cotto's face was starting to the effects of Tony's punches, he was visibly acting far more frantic and starting to look scared and desperate. He was tying up and holding a hell of a lot more than he was in the first 8 rounds of the fight. Of course Cotto was doing better in the rematch, because he's a cripple killer, he was up against a one eyed Margarito from the 3rd round on. It's pretty hard to defend against left hooks you can't see coming. Yet even with one eye, I think I gave Margarito the 5th, he had his moments in the 6th and the 7th was pretty damned close. The 8th was Cotto's last hurrah, he put a ton into that round. Kind of like he put a lot into the 9th and arguably shaded that in the first fight. So while yes, Cotto was winning these rounds. the first 4 were 80/20 type affairs. The 5th, 6th and 7th were 60/40, and the 9th was 55/45. With 3 more rounds to work with, on a badly tiring mentally unraveling Cotto, I still say... anything could've happened.
     
    CST80, Dec 4, 2023
    CST80, Dec 4, 2023
    #26
  12. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I WANTED to be a lifelong, open Margarito fan, and to rejoice in this fandom with my friends. But the media ruined it all for me. Now, all I can do is be lonely and thumb up CJ comments quietly, to my self.
     
    Boxed Ears, Dec 4, 2023
    Boxed Ears, Dec 4, 2023
    #27
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  13. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    Another thing that bothered me was the fact it was Capetillo that put that used pad in the wrap instead of a new one,he said accidently, not Margarito. The only mention of a white plaster like substance smeared on the pad was by the CSAC insp who had watched the wrapping , passed & signed of on it BEFORE Naz made his crazy claim. If you read the report from the independant lab , they do not mention any "white substance" on it whatsoever nor was it hard even 3 weeks after the fight . Their description was it was " a damp, obviously used pad. with a red stain on it " That was just like the Cotto 1 fight so it must have been the same pad rofl Did they think it was Cotto's blood ? ROFL It was obviously stain from the gloves. THe pad was soft still 3 weeks after the fight too when was it supposed to get hard? LOL The whole scenario is ludicrous & would have gotten laughed out of any court. That why no indictment. It would be laughable if the repercussions hadn't cost an honest innocent fighter his career & tarnished his good name
    Another point was they said in the gym Capetillo was still working training fighters while Tony was banned he just couldn't work as a corner man for a while
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #28
  14. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    Ive known the guy for over 20 years I'm practically certain he was 100 % innocent. If it was proven he had ever loaded his gloves or even tried to, I'd be on him as bad as I was with Panama Lewis & Resto that was despicable
     
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    C.J., Dec 4, 2023
    #29
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  15. Maidanas Gun Tattoo

    Maidanas Gun Tattoo Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Decent win for Manny.
     
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, Dec 4, 2023
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, Dec 4, 2023
    #30
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