Tough weight class Based on Head to Head and Accomplishments 1. Willie Pep 2. Sandy Saddler 3. Salvador Sanchez 4. Vincente Saldivar 5. Henry Armstrong 6. Johnny Kilbane 7. Abe Attell 8. Alexis Arguello 9. Manny Pacquaio 10. Azumah Nelson HM: Johnny Dundee
01 - Willie Pep 02 - Sandy Saddler 03 - Vicente Saldivar 04 - George Dixon 05 - Abe Attell 06 - Sal Sanchez 07 - Freddie Miller 08 - Johnny Kilbane 09 - Eusebio Pedroza 10 - Young Corbett II Then: Kid Chocolate, Young Griffo, Ramos, Arguello, McGovern, Amrstrong, Canzoneri,
Why Attell over McGovern, is it mostly longevity? I have trouble rating Attell that highly, because he never really established his supremacy with his fights against Owen Moran being so even, and losing the news decision to Driscoll.
#10. Freddie Miller #09. Terry McGovern #08. Eusebio Pedroza #07. Johnny Kilbane #06. George Dixon #05. Salvador Sanchez #04. Abe Attell #03. Vicente Salvidar #02. Sandy Saddler #01. Willie Pep This was my 'greatness' list, but I'd rate Marcel, Armstrong and Pacquiao much higher on a head-to-head based list.
I'm not really hearing this Pacquiao thing. He never made featherweight post-2004. He clearly wasn't a better fighter than Marquez at this weight. There's no real reason to favour him over Morales at this weight because he lost to Morales a couple of months after he left it. It is absolutely clear he wasn't the two-handed fighter at feather he would become later in his career....I can't see any reason, really, to figure Pacquiao as anything particularly special at this poundage. A really good fighter, yeah, but there are a few of those.
Good list I think Pep deserves much higher ratings in p4p list than he usually gets, 230 wins without a big punch unreal.
Yeah, I think it is a lock personally. A decade at the top about 20 defences. That's ****ed up. Contrast that with Kilbane! McGovern gets slid back on account of Corbett, too.
What do you make of the fights with Moran? Do you rate him highly too, or do you just think he was a bad style for Attell or something? I find it hard to look past how even they were in their 25 and 23 round contests.
Moran has that legacy problem. It's impressive, holding a champ to draws, but it's not enough to do what you mean after that mean more in the way wins would. My memory of their two big contests were that they were boxed very conservatively? That suits Attell. What does he care? He knows that Moran can't take his title boxing conservatively and he also knew that if Moran brought the pressure it would suit him, that is it would suit Attell. So he waited. The man was a born winner. He and Kilbane held the title for longer between them than the next ten champions did combined.
Seeing Saldivar outside of the top 5 causes me great grief! 1 Pep 2 Saddler 3 Saldivar 4 Sanchez 5 Dixon 6 Attel 7 Pedroza 8 Miller 9 Kilbane 10 McGovern
Moran does have a lot of good wins, though he is hurt in this by his best wins being spread across three divisions. For me the lack of a win over Moran is more significant without it I think there's a question mark about if he should be considered world champion or an American champion I don't want to overstate this too much, as ai hold Attell and Noran in pretty high regard, but it does hurt his ranking for me.
Wasn't it just a 10 round ND? It's a debatable point but when they had two decision contests over much longer distances, I don't see a Newspaper decision setting it.
Yeah, very much so, but out of being awarded the win, loss, or having another draw, it's reassuring that Attell is currently credited with the win. He was apparently able to beat Moran in the eyes of the majority of recorded observers at one point in time. It's not nothing.