147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bill Butcher, Nov 16, 2007.


  1. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Well, suprise suprise, we have the dream match to settle all dream matches, probably the 2 greatest welter-wts who ever lived, both called sugar ray.

    Opinions will vary on this 1 as neither have ever lost at this weight & quite often both looked unbeatable at the weight but who comes out on top, robinson or leonard.

    Robinson saw off henry armstrong by a dazzling 21 votes to 2 while Leonard did likewise to jose napoles by 23 votes to 9.

    Who is all time welterweight king, you have 2 days to decide, make your vote count.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'd expect Robinson to dominate and stop Leonard. Not easy fighting a guy who does most of what you do better plus excellent power.
     
  4. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    All factors taken into consideration: Robinson holds the ever so slight edge, however I think SRL might just beat him in a head-to-head contest. Also he's the most complete package of any WW I've ever seen. :good


    I'll put the cat amongst the pigeons and vote for Leonard.:good
     
  5. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Honestly?

    I can't envisage either fighter dominating the other here. It's a pick 'em for me.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    In which areas does Leonard exceed Robinson?
     
  7. biglads

    biglads Climbing the WBO Rankings Full Member

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    Robinson KO11 Leonard

    I think Robinson at 147 is too good. SRL will have his moments with some flashy combos, but Robinson will wear him down, bust him up and then KO him late.

    Robinson goes home in the Pink Caddy, Leonard is off the the infirmary for observation.
     
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  8. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Leonard had a very minor edge in handspeed and defence. Robinson carried more power, although more or less every other area was close to call between 'em. :good
     
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Possibly hand speed, but Robinson's handspeed is if anything underrated now because the only common footage is at 160. I
    think SRL would just edge him. Leonard might be the fasest 147 in history actually.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree but understanding the following - Leonard is harder to hit, but only because he spends (generally) so little time in the firing zone. Despite being in the danger zone for huge portions of the match, Robinson is very hard to hit too. I think in this match, Leonards advantage in elusivenss is nul and void for this reason.

    Second, Leonard MAY have an edge in handspeed. But I believe Robinson could throw punches just as quickly. It's just that when you throw very heavy blows in combinations you're going to be slowed up some. The difference needs to be massive to coutneract this huge Robinson advantage in punching. And it's just not.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not attacking Leonard. A great fighter, a top 5 WW, all time. But this match is just wrong for him - it's actually Robinson's easiest day out in the top 12 as far as I am concerned. The most over-hyped fantasy match in the sport.
     
  11. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Anybody who thinks that there's a massive gulf in class between Robinson and a fellow Top 3 all-time WW, they're surely being a tad unrealistic. Both these guys bring to the table plenty of aces which will pose the other problems.
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I totally disagree. Leonard will be competitive all the way. Robinson had his close calls at 147 vs fighters not as good as Leonard. I think Leonards style matches up possibly better than any other 147 truth be told. I also think SRR will still edge him, and any other 147 ever for that matter. Leonards speed is definitely going to disrupt SRR a bit, and don't be mistaken that he can't punch damn hard at 147 just because he moves a bit. This is a first class matchup.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There is no gulf in class. They are both top .01%, all time. But if two greats meet and one outdoes the other in the areas where the first is used to excelling, the first will get soundly beaten.

    Every time.
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    But in this case fighter 2 comes closer than most if not all others to matching fighter 1 in many area's. Gavilan had two great fights with SRR and Leonard brings some different assets to the table, not that Gavilan was lacking, super fighter. Realistically nobody at 147 has ever come anywhere near as close to matching SRR's immense completeness as Leonard. Neither have any standout weakness whatsoever, this just might be the most complete matchup of all time.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    And in addition, Leonard would be the best fighter Robinson ever fought, period. I'm not talking about class here.

    Why? Punching, he loses. Footspeed, he loses. Aggression, he loses. Ring generalship...borderline, but he loses. Adaptability, close, but Robinson holds all the aces for changing this match, so he loses. What does he bring to upset Robinson? Specificifally.