147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

I can see people saying robinson wins,even clearly,but not by stoppage as ray was never even close to being stopped at welter or in fact any weight. (i discount the camcho match.)
There is no concrete example of robinson being superior to leonard in stamina,especially at welter....Leonard showed extraordinary stamina in the two bouts with hearns and duran respectively,remember he moved for the first five rounds v hearns,had his eye closed and was being soundly outboxed but threw huge flurries in the 13th and 14th to force a stoppage,and against duran he was subjected to a pounding and went life and death for fifteen rounds yet still took the last round and never faded... He also finished strongly enough to force a 15 round stoppage v benitez,all these fights occured at welter...
If you think tommy has comparable offense to robinson what makes you think robbie stops leonard if tommy never even came close? Especially seeing as tommy had the better jab to set up the punches...
By tommy being elusive i mean because of his reach and jab keeping him out of trouble,at welter tommy was very elusive...
Duran is a totally different type of fighter to robinson,and in montreal he closed the distance very quickly,bored inside to the body,relentlessly attacked,wrestled and during all this bobbed,weaved and defended,this is not robinsons style at all,so the comparison is not valid,hearns was a faster and better puncher than duran,same as robinson,but lost to leonard....
My main point is i dont feel there is any welter in history who is going to eat leonards punches to score a ko,or beat ray inside schedule...

 

its a pick em to me but i think robinson will take it in a close ud

 

Ray Leonard?

Benny Leonard would have a better chance of beating Robinson than Ray Leonard.

 

Moving laterally is not the same as running. Why didn't Robinson stop Gavilan in either fight given that he stood his ground? Leonard's offensive arsenal is also not to be scoffed at.

How could this have no relevance? Given that the said mover hits far far harder than Gavilan.

The first point puts both in unknown territory. It also makes Leonard quite competitive IMO.

The quote below

leads me to think you might underrate Leonard's stamina a little. He showed superb stamina vs 3 ATG's late in their fights.









Personally i don't think it is as doubtless as you claim. Leonard came back to win a couple of rounds very late vs a Duran who had really gone at him, to the body too. Leonard also showed brilliant stamina when rallying very late vs Hearns. I think you are again cutting Leonard a little short.

Leonard had to do plenty vs Hearns. I do agree tho that SRR eases away late, have always agreed. I cannot however see Leonard being stopped at all.

TBH i cannot see Leonard being any more tired than he was vs Duran, a brutal battle. He'd never been under anything like that pressure yet was firing very well at the end. Leonard will be quite ok.

I can't see a stoppage, and nor can i see Robinson "taking over almost completely down the back straight". Again i take solace in the Duran fight, nobody is putting on more heat.

You'd better give me your other 10 in the top 12 then so i can dig much deeper. Finding one from that many fighters that Robinson will defeat easier will be absolute chicken feed to be honest.

I'm going up against your comment Leonard will be Robinson's easiest win out of the top 12. I believe many will not even win this many rounds all fight, IF they survive this long at all. It's a big big call from you.

No worries, i don't see all the other 10 doing better than Leonard as very realistic either.

He's easily better than Hagler, but given this is at 147 and Ray is not blown up or past it it's not going to remotely resemble this fight.

His best chance of winning is lateral movement with the odd flurry hoping to lead this fight. He might also happen to hurt Robinson, it's been done before. Both slim pickings, but the only pickings really. He's gotta float and trade at the right times, with variety.

Leonard's adaptions will be variety of offense so Robinson can't time him, which of course also makes it harder for Robinson to defend against. If Leonard gets predictable he's in trouble, but he won't.

Again i ask how come peak Robinson didn't come close to stopping Gavilan in either fight.

 

Yeah- "My granny could beat Ray Leonard, with her zimmer frame and handbag" :roll: :dead


Wise up. Nobody would have an easy night against SRL at WW (a great deal would lose), Robbo is no different. It'd be a truely fantastic fight. :good

 

Napoles would have the easiest night with Leonard. Or Gavilan, who was essentially a better version of Ray.

 

Robinson with his footspeed, handspeed (while inferior to Leonard's per se, but faster when power punching is concerned) and awkward angles of attacks (the footage of him near his prime weight and years reminds of RJJ actually), comes on top in offence, and his reflexes and counter-punching don't allow Leonard to steal enough rounds to get a decision. Most probably a KO win for Robinson though.

 

What happened to you buddy ? You seem completely lost...atsch

 

I woke up. Why don't you...

 

Affirmative. I'll be back, I just need to hasta la pizza.

 

I really like this assessment of 'Sugar v Sugar'. this is actually one of my favorite fantasy match-ups. Robinson's explosiveness and power win the day for him, but leonard is very close in all areas...In the power department however, I think SRR is superior....Because of th epower he displayed at middle...I don't know if Robinson would be the hardest hitting welter that SRL has faced....That distintion just might go to Hearns on a punch for punch basis. But Robinson had better explosive combinations.
I like SRR by close UD (at his very best)