1890s DEADLINE Feb 4 - NEW SURVEY - Top 10 to 25 Boxers in Each Decade (1890s-2010s)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Oct 3, 2022.

  1. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    Thanks for the courteous response Joe.

    My list is no more valid than yours. To be fair, looking at our respective top 10's relatively briefly, the same names mostly appear somewhere on each other's lists, even if in different orders, which is only to be expected. I think the only guys in my top 5's that don't appear for you in that decade at all are Tommy Gibbon's in the 1910's (though you have him in the 20's as do I), Ruben Olivares in the 60's and Vicente Saldivar in the 70's.

    Equally, if you have time at any point to glance over mine (see Page 3) and think I've missed out anyone obvious, it would be much appreciated if you let me know. It's quite possible I've forgotten to consider a deserving boxer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2022
  2. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a mighty daunting endeavor.

    But do not feel obligated to tackle everything at once, or to tackle everything at all.

    If you feel extremely comfortable about Decade XX, and not so much about any other decade - feel free to just provide a Top 10 (up to Top 25) for any given decade.
     
  3. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Incidentally, I think I intend to do tiered deadlines.

    And I may spread them apart 2-4 weeks, for each subsequent deadline (which I realize may stretch this a year or more).

    But the first deadline will undoubtedly be the 1890s, and then the 1900s/1910s will come next.

    So if anyone is looking to "prioritize", please keep that in mind.

    I may make a thread calling out the experts from those particular eras (which frankly, my own knowledge is less than stellar putting it mildly). But I know you are out there - those with a strong command of the major players across that stretch from 1890s-1910s. So if anyone wants to give an aforementioned expert a shout to join in, 1890s deadline is coming first.

    I'm undecided on when, but I may aim for mid-late January for that one.
     
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    This seems much more manageable.
     
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  5. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I wish I had thought of that initially so that earlier participants would have been afforded the same advance warning that they can prioritize chronologically.
     
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  6. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm going to roll with a January 15, 2023 deadline for the 1890s.

    Title edited accordingly. And I think I'm gonna stretch them approximately 3-5 weeks apart, depending on my schedule.

    So the 1900s deadline will be some time in Feb, the next one in March, etc.

    Apologies for the change in approach, but the more I think this through, I think this is the best approach to the project.
     
  7. Del Boy

    Del Boy R.I.P Darren Sutherland Full Member

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    So just so I’m clear the 20th deadline is out?

    I’ve been working on paper so haven’t posted but am nearly done, though I have rushed considerably after some things getting busy for me. I also put 3 decades, 25 names each, in the laundry.
    I was still committed to getting in done to contribute to this great project. But if the deadlines extended I’ll have a much better quality list.
     
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  8. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Correct.

    Apologies for any inconvenience.

    The 20th was never gonna work for me as it turned out. And as I contemplated extending the deadline, I thought it made more sense to keep the rest of them open after I close one. This way people have time to fine-tune their lists, new people have a chance to make submissions, and I'll have more time to ascend the decades with the results.

    But yeah, as of now I'm planning to make Jan 15 the deadline for the 1890s.
    Everything else will remain open until I settle on a 1900s deadline (the deadlines will tend to fall on Sundays).
    Then the remaining decades will remain open until the next deadline, and so on.
     
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  9. Austinboxing

    Austinboxing British Boxing fan banned Full Member

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    Hello @Rumsfeld i have officially finished my list. It took a lot of compiling and research but I finally completed it and I learned a lot while researching for it so it was a good time. I also decided to just do 10 for each weight class as 25 was too daunting a task. Looking forward to seeing the release of the full video.
     
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  10. Austinboxing

    Austinboxing British Boxing fan banned Full Member

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    Btw good luck with tallying up the results :lol:. Some people have been brutally complicated by posting partial rankings in random orders Lol.
     
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  11. Joe Grantham

    Joe Grantham New Member Full Member

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    Hi Greg - Let me start by saying that your list is awesome and I found more than a few fighters that I have missed. These kind of this are somewhat subjective and I get a little too pumped up over some of the fighters that I grew up watching (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Zarate, Pintor, Salvador Sanchez, Hearns etc...). I definitely missed quite a few for the 1920's (Panama Al Brown, Kid Chocolate, Jimmy McLarin etc...). I had some struggles with anything before the 1960's but your lists are extremely enlightening and I must admit... It sent me down the research rabbit hole. Lol. Our 1950's lists are a nice comparison. I see that I missed Lionel Rose, Pone Kingpetch among others in the 60's... Definitely great fighters that I didn't think about but are truly deserving.

    I absolutely love both of our 1970's lists.... While I always hear about the 1970's being the golden age for heavyweights... I was a huge fan of the great battles that happened in the Light Heavyweight ranks. I vividly remember watching the Galindez v Rossman, Galindez V Marvin Johnson and many others. I also found fighters like Duran, James Scott and Yaqui Lopez intriguing. I was in my element watching these bouts.

    The 1980's was a bit of a blur for me, but the 4 kings certainly stood out as well as Holmes, M. Spinks, Tyson and a few others. We have a lot of similarities in our 1990's and 2000's list as well...

    Question - Do you have "favorite" fighters from the 1960's and each following decade?

    Mine would be as follows:
    1960's: Ali, Liston, Tiger, Cokes
    1970's: Foreman, Shavers, Lyle (Love the big hitters)
    1980's: Benitez, Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Leonard, Holmes, Tyson
    1990's: Toney, RJJ, JCC, Galaxy, Carbajal, Whitaker
    2000's: Mayweather, Pacquiao, Klitschko Bro's, Ricardo Lopez
    2010's: Mayweather, Pacquiao, Golovkin, Crawford, Ward... I probably have too many to list. Lol.

    Anyway - Just wanted to say again - thank you for sharing your lists. I truly value your viewpoint and you have helped to open my eyes even further.

    Thx,
    Joe
     
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  12. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    You're welcome Joe, I'm really pleased I've been useful to you in creating your lists.

    I was born in 82 and got into boxing in the 90's. As a Brit Lennox was my favourite fighter during that decade and then Calzaghe during the 00's, as well as Pacquiao. 2010's Froch at the start, then GGG and Loma, now Usyk and Innoue. For reasons I dont understand being a fellow Brit isnt important as to who I support as it used to be, but I've also still got behind Fury and Josh Taylor at points on the basis I could see them becoming the best in the world in their respective weight divisions.

    Pre 90's my favourites are mostly those I've researched the most and/or read books on:

    60s- Ali (1st classic boxer I got into) and Jofre (read a great book written by a guy that posts on here)
    70s - Duran (hands of stone was the book I enjoyed the most, together with a Joe Louis biography) and Monzon (not read a book on Monzon, but I loved his cold approach and dominance in the ring, obviously not a fan of him out of the ring)
    80s - read lots on Tyson and 4 kings. I bet being ringside before a prime Tyson fight was electric. I've mentioned Duran and if I had a favourite of SRL, Hagler and Hearns, it would be the guy I rank the lowest of them, Hearns. Again, possibly because hes the only 1 I've read a book dedicated to him only and possibly because his vulnerability, as well as devastating power and physical attributes, made him such an exciting fighter.
     
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  13. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Member Full Member

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    It would have been more desirable to have a separate thread for each decade - both for keeping things more organized and for reducing clutter.

    Anyways here is my list for the 1890s.

    1. Tommy Ryan
    2. George Dixon
    3. Bob Fitzsimmons
    4. Kid Levigne
    5. Frank Erne
    6. Jimmy Barry
    7. Young Griffo
    8. Joe Gans
    9. Mysterious Billy Smith
    10. Jack McAuliffe
    11. George McFadden
    12. Barbados Joe Walcott
    13. Oscar Gardner
    14. Kid McCoy
    15. James J. Corbett
    16. James J. Jeffries
    17. Joe Choynski
    18. Pedlar Parmer
    19. Solly Smith
    20. Bob Armstrong
     
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  14. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    @Rumsfeld - FYI, I've completed my top 25 for each decade.

    Thank you very much for organising this. Purely from the perspective of the number of fighters analysed, the research I put into this is the biggest I've ever done. I drew up "short" lists for each decade of anything between 45 and 65 fighters and adhering strictly to rule 4 from your OP, I recorded their W-L-D record, world title W-L-D record & reign length, best wins and losses for each of those fighters in the decade I was evaluating only. When ranking, I only considered the data recorded for the decade in question. So, a lot of work (several hours each week for the past c.10-weeks), but enjoyable and I feel my knowledge has definitely deepened. This process has thrown up the odd inconsistency with my top 20 rankings at the original 8 weight divisions though, it's made me see a few things a little differently, so I'll have re-do those when I get time.

    @anyone else that is interested, a few insights:

    Strongest decade = 1940's. Just look at the top 4. It's the only decade Lloyd Marshall ranks in for me & I have him #13, which gives an indicator of the depth of quality, too.

    Biggest surprise = The 1920's is known as the golden age of boxing, but purely based on the quality of the best boxers, 1910's is clearly superior, imo. My 1910's #8, #9, #10 & #11 of Britton, Dillon, Kid Lewis & and Freddie Welsh, all did their best work in that decade. The first 3 are locks for a top 100 p4p all time and Welsh probably gets in too. My #8 for 1920's, Jack Delaney, probably doesn't.

    Only fighter to appear in 3 decades (arguably another surprise) = Edre Jofre - 1950's = #21; 1960's = ##6; 1970's = 16

    Top 5 in 2 decades = Joe Gans, Packey McFarland, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Joe Louis, SRR, Muhammed Ali, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio

    Most underated = There are so many, but to avoid making the longest post in forum history, I'll stick to just 2 that really jumped out early in process:

    1) Tommy Gibbons - Tommy had a fine record in the 1920's, where I rank him #11. He went 50-5-1, beating Greb, Kid Norfolk, 13.5lbs heavier Billy Miske, likely heavier Willie Meehan, 6 & 11lbs heavier Clay Turner and Georges Carpentier. Consider then, that the 1920's isn't the decade he ranks the highest, for me. In the 1910's he went 47-0-2, beating Greb, 15lbs heavier Battling Levinsky, Billy Miske x 2, Gus Christie x 4, George Chip x 5, Clay Turner x 2, Bob Moha, Buck Crouse and Willie KO Brennan. This guy gets criminally underrated.

    2) Packey McFarland - With only 1 defeat in 113 contests, which, if it happened (some reports suggest it was another boxer named McFarland) occurred when McFarland was a 16-year old child, you'd imagine his resume must be lacking quality wins to see him so rarely ranked in top 15 p4p all time lists. That's not the case though. We went 1-0-2 with the #9 on my all time LW list and is generally considered to be on the better end of those draws. He went 2-0-1 with Britton, who I call the 5th greatest WW of all time. Insanely, he holds a win, past prime and overweight, after 2-years out the ring with my #6 MW of all time (for balance, of the footage I've seen I'd say it was Gibbons, rather than McFarland who was edging a close fight, and whilst I've seen conflicting reports as to the weight the fight was contested at, I don't think it was at the full MW limit). His "2nd tier" wins aren't too shabby either - Owen Moran, Benny Yanger, Jimmy Britt, Leach Cross x 2, Lockport Jimmy Duffy, Watt Wells, Harlem Tommy Murphy x 4, Young Erne x 2 and Dick Hyland. He could well have the most underrated record in all of boxing history, imo.
     
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  15. Austinboxing

    Austinboxing British Boxing fan banned Full Member

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    There is only clutter cause you guys are making new posts for each decade and cause you keep asking questions that have already been asked. Just do what I did and put your whole list into one post. You don’t have to do it all in one go you can just make a start and then edit it later to add more names.
     
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