1913 - johnson v langford: who wins?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Imagine langford got the title shot and faced johnson instead of jeanette.

    By this time it's well documented that langford is fighting and knocking out much better opposition than johnson.

    Due to this I think it's fair to say we can class langford as the better hw during this period.

    However, h2h who wins this match up?

    There wouldn't be a huge weight difference imo but obviously johnson has a natural size advantage.

    Would langford be able to get to johnson and take him out or would johnson be able to spoil, frustrate and evade langford thus outpointing him?

    Was johnson still the best hw in the world at this point or was he just an old champ who was taking the route of least resistance?
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
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  2. prone2gr8tness

    prone2gr8tness Member Full Member

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    how many rounds?
     
    prone2gr8tness, Oct 1, 2011
    prone2gr8tness, Oct 1, 2011
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Hmmmmm good question.

    20 rounds seems fair.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think prime for prime johnson wins pretty comfortably.

    I think by this stage johnson had lost his motivation and was nowhere near the force he once was.

    Going in less than hundred percent against sam isn't a good idea.

    If the fight was made between the 1913 versions of these two I think sam takes a decision over 20.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    From 1911 onwards, I take Langford over Johnson.
     
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
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  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Johnson is all wrong for any version of Langford, heeasily outboxes him from distance and clinches or smashes him with the uppercut and hooks on the inside. Maybe part of the reason Johnson never rematched Langford was because it was so easy when he did face him, meaning the rematch would never be warranted
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Johnson couldn't even "easily outbox" the likes of O'Brien or Jim Johnson or even Moran in an exhausted effort in 1914. You presume plenty when you presume that Johnson would have got into anything like the necessary shape to take out Langford around this time. I read a press report this morning that opined that had Moran been even a "second-rater" he would have knocked Johnson out.
     
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
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  8. Vano-Irons

    Vano-Irons Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Langford every time, he was just hungier.

    There's a great story that, after their first fight which Johnson won, the two held a three round exhibition just 4 days later (Sam was still pretty busted up). The fight was held on a stage rather than a ring, with people down below watching. Within 10 seconds of the action, Langford forced a clinch in order to whisper to Jack 'This ain't no exhibition, I'm here to fight!' Over the next three rounds, the two literally kicked shot out of each other. Both wrestled each other all over the stage, and ended up on the laps of those watching. By the end of the 3 rounds, both were incredibly beaten up, and the room they fought in was practically torn down.

    Jack Johnson would never give Sam Langford a rematch, and some suggest it was because of this exhibition.

    Langford beats him.
     
    Vano-Irons, Oct 9, 2011
    Vano-Irons, Oct 9, 2011
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  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I don't think the version in question is all wrong for anyone.

    He less than dominated the opposition he did face, none of which were top 5 opponents.

    I think in his prime johnson is p4p one of the greatest hw's in history but by this point in his career he had considerably declined.

    Langford, on the other hand, was in his prime and had filled out to a hw frame.

    I just don't think jack had it in him any more. He'd already beaten everyone out there at some point in his career and just wasn't motivated any more.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, prime for prime I like Johnson. In 1913 I don't think Johnson can be favoured, at all. Maybe he could manage a share over six or eight.
     
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
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  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    From 1910-1915 sam beat everyone he faced stopping most of them. He was regularly fighting the best hw's in the world.

    I think his run as number 1 contender is better than will's was and I think it's right up there with peter jackson and sonny liston.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 9, 2011
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  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Well he broke his arm in the Jim Johnson bout early, so I don't think we can take that into account of out assessment of him. I think the decline of JJ is exaggerated. Even against Willard he still had enough left to outbox the giant for 20 rounds or so. Johnson in 1913 is effective the same fighter who toyed with Flynn and made him Ortiz himself, Flyn going into this was 1-2 against Langford himself

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7ZDut_33_M[/ame]
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was bad against O'Brien and pretty bad against Moran. If you want to say there is no difference between him against Flynn and these others, that's fine, but that just means he's bad here too.

    Personally I disagree with you.

    As far as Willard goes, I'm sure that Johnson outboxed the heavy bag in training too. Speaking of which, this is perhaps his best camp.
     
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
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  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don't think he looked bad against Moran either, he looked in shape and dominated it pretty much, the O'Brien fight I've checked was in '09. What you have to bear in mind is, he's an economic fighter who doesn't look spectacular but gradually breaks opponents down while not being hit.

    Your other post highlighting him getting vastly out of shape brings up another issue. Wouldn't he be more likely to train harder for Langford if he perceives him as a threat? The reports of him being out of shape show he was coasting pretty much. Against JEffries I think he likely trained harder than he ever trained. Would he try to coast against Langford? Maybe but he might just get away with it too, the style match up suits him that much
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Oct 9, 2011
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I just don't know what to make of what you are saying to me really. Moran gave Johnson perhaps the hardest fight of his career (That he won) up until that point. Are you saying Moran is some kind of worldbeater or is this some sort of "styles thing" again? Because to me, Moran looks about as good as someone who would lose to Well, Willard, Ross, Kubiak, McCary...
     
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 9, 2011
    #15
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