1949 article claiming Lowry took a dive against Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's not about being frozen out of bigger fights, it's about getting hired at all. (as an "opponent", which is what he was).
    Like you say, he was "reliably losing".

    I don't think many claim that the fight was fixed because Marciano was seen as a "freight train on track to becoming HW champion" at that time.
    He was a unknown 20-0 prospect, of which there were many similar, I'd guess - but one with a very influential manager who had started to take an interest in him, and booked to fight in MSG and almost certainly being groomed towards contendership and main events at MSG in the near future.

    Marciano's the "house fighter" against Lowry, and Lowry is expected to lose.

    Lowry, according to reports, had Marciano in serious trouble early on and backed off and seemed to carry Marciano for the remainder of the fight.

    That's it.
    I think people are overcomplicating the discussion.Journeymen fighters like Lowry throw fights like that all the time. They may not admit it but we've all seen enough professional boxing matches to know this kind of thing is "business as usual".
     
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  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The problem with this theory is that it assumes a LOT about Lowry. It assumes that he was much better than his record indicates. It assumes that Lowry was so much in control that he knowingly stepped off the gas and purposely allowed Marciano, who had a very chin, to survive. It assumes that Lowry didnt just tire from the effort in the early rounds or succumb to Marciano's continued pace and aggression, something he was famous for. It also ignores the fact that Marciano would be down and/or behind on the cards numerous times only to chug along and wear his opponent down to a nub. Thats the thing about stamina fighters, its not unusual to see them behind early but, playing the long game, forge ahead late. Its also not unusual to see a journeyman fighter with a sparring partner mentality get discouraged when a guy takes your best shots and keeps coming. It takes a lot more evidence than simply one writer saying it looked like Lowry stepped off the gas to brand a fight a fix. Lowry himself was interviewed about this fight dozens of times and always said he felt he was robbed. So which was it? Was he not trying, in which case the decision was accurate because he threw the fight, or was he robbed after giving his best effort? Because if he were trying to save face it would have been far easier to say "I was told to take it easy and I still kicked his ass." You would also have to demonstrably show that by beating a largely unknown clubfighter that Lowry would cease to get fights. I just dont see that. Its one thing to say he had a powerful manager but to say "he was booked for MSG and being groomed for contenership" is just hindsight. He wasnt booked for his first MSG fight until after the Lowry fight. Every fighter is being groomed for contendership until he starts losing so the idea that him being "groomed" for contendorship was some kind of motivation to fix the fight doesnt jive. With 20 fights under his belt against no competition of note the idea that a loss to Lowry would have so upset the apple cart that they would have fixed the judges, the referee, and Lowry, is pretty ridiculous. Its possible that Lowry let up on the gas. Its possible that the three judges were paid off. Its possible it was just a bad decision, albeit a decision arrived at honestly. Its at least as likely if not moreso that the journeyman Lowry simply faded down the stretch and succumbed to Marciano's durability and stamina. Lowry wouldnt be the first, last, or best fighter to do so. Its not overcomplicating the discussion to suggest that an elaborate fix is less likely than what Lowry's career trajectory suggested and what is the official decision. In fact, I would argue it is overcomplicating the discussion to suggest that Weill and/or the mob went to such lengths to preserve the unbeaten record of a young, relatively inexperienced fighter who had never faced anyone even remotely approaching Lowry's level of experience in an era when a loss didnt mean anywhere near what it does today.
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't believe there was a wide conspiracy of people being paid off. I don't believe an elaborate fix is necessary.
    But I don't have any strong reason to doubt the report of the fight.
    Ted Lowry was brought in to lose, and seemed to back off when it looked like he could win by KO or TKO.
    Judges are routinely biased towards "house fighters" anyway. It doesn't take explicit orders for them to slant there votes that way. It happens in just about every fight.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    If I was Ted Lowrey, who seems to have been a free agent happy to fight any place anytime against anyone as a regular job on a regular basis, I’d feel like it didn’t much matter if I won or lost. It would be in my interest to turn up, test the local kid, see what he had, then get through the fight without getting hurt in order to get booked the next time. If I beat up a house fighter I wouldn’t get asked back. And if I got beat up myself it would most likely hurt, or I would be too injured to do manual work while I recovered. My interest would be entirely in not getting hurt and getting asked back. And paid.

    So I really don’t think I would take a liberty with a green kid either. Not if this was my only income. Nobody would need to pay me to do that. It’s what I plan to do. I would want to get another paycheque. A rematch. The whole point would be to do it again and not get hurt. I could find a fight in another town or stay there and get a rematch. Business is business.

    Ted didn’t know who Rocky was. He didn’t need to. It was the mans job to coast to decision results.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You know why.
     
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  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Marciano really lost that fight but was the beneficiary of a crooked decision, would it appreciably affect your rating of him? Speaking just for me it wouldn't change my opinion of him .Great fighter ,great champ who may have gotten lucky in that fight ,and also the first Lastarza one.Ali may or may not have deserved the two wins over Norton ,and possibly the one over Young,does it materially affect your all time ranking of him?
     
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  7. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Exactly, and the 'few' insiders who benefit from such underhanded dirty work, KNOW precisely 'their' part... Unspoken rewarded expectations, for desired outcomes.

    It doesn't, and NEVER Has, needed a host of conspirators. the Moneymen and 'their' chosen FEW, be they Manager, Judges, Ref or Fighters!
     
  8. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 "Don't try"- CB 1926-1994 Full Member

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    It makes me wonder how many Journeyman don't just choose to squash prospects?
    If you have a record of something like 22-70 you are not out there taking beatings.

    Maybe the upsets we see over prospects and up and comers is a matter of the Journeyman just deciding to throw a spanner in the works?
     
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  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Suckers still putting faith in an article written by a man who didn’t even watch the fight? There was someone on this forum who said his brother was at this fight and they were mad Marciano didn’t KO him hence the booing not the decision. May as well believe that guy as much as this one. Both have the same credibility. In every Marciano documentary I’ve ever read they barely even mention Lowry let alone some big conspiracy to throw a fight. Lowry was a Savy experienced vet who gave a green Marciano a hard time but lost a close decision. Period. There is literally zero proof of anything else and to suggest such is an insult to both fighters. Once again the reporter is taking the word of someone he wasn’t actually there to make these bold claims. Nor was Marciano ever accused of such a thing throughout his career. I highly doubt Lowry was the one guy who got paid.
     
  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ironically, Lowery fought Billy Fox to a draw and decisioned him in the rematch.
     
  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Probably not, but I don’t weigh “49-0” as heavily as many fans seem to.
     
  12. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Here's the original fight report from the Providence Journal. The writer scores it for Lowry, 6-4, and thinks it's strange that Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth round, but also acknowledges the possibility that he may have simply tired himself out chasing an early knockout.

    This content is protected
     
  13. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nor I , and 48-1-0 makes no difference to me in the long scheme of things.
     
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  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This man was ringside, in his hometown.
    Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

    The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."
    Any querying of this result seems to provoke a predictable reaction.
    Nobody has suggested that Marciano was party to any underhand dealings ,in this fight or any other.
    The fact that Marciano's management had very close ties to the mob may have focused more attention on a couple of his results ,that is no reflection on himself.For example Frankie Carbo persuaded Weill to accept Mathews as an opponent.Marciano met Carbo a few times, he also visited Vito Genovese,it was probably prudent to do so given the octopus hold the Mob had over boxing at that time.I 'd imagine I speak for the majority when I say Marciano had far too much pride ,self respect,and confidence in his own fighting abilities to ever consider entering into an arranged result fight,but why would he need to be informed that a fight was going to be held on those terms?
    Mob controlled Billy Fox was in loads of arranged fights and believed he won them legitimately as did Carnera.There is some speculation that when Johnson agreed to carry Ketchel for some distance to give the crowd a show and make the movie rights worth watching ,that Stanley was also not privy to the arrangement.
    Marciano's career ,apart from two debateble decisions early in his career shows no suspicions of any favourable judging or dubious machinations to Rocky's advantage.Skehan in his Marciano book does not mention any controversy regarding the first Lowry fight and quotes one character as saying Lowry took a bad body beating but hung on to lose the decision. Does it really matter?
     
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  15. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

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    I remember when Kohmitsky did it to Etches, who was well hyped.

     
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