1949 article claiming Lowry took a dive against Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 "Don't try"- CB 1926-1994 Full Member

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    Ahaha Yeah. Good on him.
     
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  2. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is fine. I have zero problem with saying Lowry got a bad decision (even though we don’t get to watch the fight, plenty of fights people call “robberies” that really aren’t Canelo GGG comes to mind). My problem lies with allegations of corruption. Matthews was a fine opponent to face considering the streak he was on. Underrated fighter. Carbo or not Matthews was in line for a LHW title shot had just beaten several Hw contenders. They preferred more money in fighting Marciano then for the LHW belt. Other then that I agree.
     
  3. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    for my money there is nothing more lovely to see than a Technically Sound BOXER... Lovely work, beautiful boxing and a nice breakdown of the technics too..
     
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  4. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The reporter who was ringside scored it 6rds Lowry, 4 rds Marciano.we have all seen bigger discrepancies than that maybe Lowry deserved it ,maybe he didn't.Mathews was a hype job his own manager knew his limitations.He had beaten one contenderLayne who was damaged goods after the Marciano fight.Rexy lost to Charles after Marciano, beat three nobodies with losing records got a gift over Charles, and then started a downward spiral .
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021 at 6:34 AM
  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Disagree on the Matthews front. Beat a lot of good fighters. You don’t do that if you’re a hype job. His record far surpasses what’s considered a good contender today.
     
  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Show me when he was ever a ranked heavyweight contender? Apart from a used up Layne and the robbery against Charles name one ranked heavyweight he ever beat?
     
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That’s kind of a silly argument for that time. Show me when Archie Moore was a ranked Hw despite being the best contender for years before facing Marciano (ranked him in 55 years into beating top contenders)?Point being he beat ranked HWs like the number 2 Layne and was the number one ranked LHW. He beat other contenders like Marshall,Nardico, Charles, Murphy. It was hard for a LHW/HW to be ranked in two divisions.
     
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Moore was ranked no1 in 55.Moore beat Henry no3,Valdes no1, Valdes no2,Dunlap no4.Sys no5 . Plus Johnson 3 times and Maxim3 times.What is silly is you trying to make an equation between Moore who beat numerous contenders and Mathews who really , discounting the Charles robbery only beat one , a past his sell by date Layne !
     
  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Think you missed the point. Point being he was beating ranked contenders from 51/52 on in the hw division. But wasn’t ranked in hw till 55. Meaning LHWs like Harold Johnson Archie Moore Harry Matthews Satterfield etc would often have to be competitive for years before they recieved a rankings despite often times beating highly ranked HWs. That’s why it’s a silly argument. You’re trying to say he was unworthy because a lack of a Hw ranking yet was ranked number one LHW and beat the number 2 ranked heavyweight. That doesn’t scream terrible hyped opponent to me. Obviously I don’t hold him to high I just think he gets underrated. He’d probably beat a lot
    Of contenders over the years. Heck Layne picked Matthews to beat Marciano.
     
  10. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Im saying nothing of the sort Moore earned his heavyweight title shot by beating5 heavyweights ranked in the top 5 Mathews legitimately beat just one .
    He couldn't beat a lot of contenders in his own era and it wasn't a strong one was it!

    I'm saying he was unworthy because he didn't beat anyone other than Layne whom Marciano had ruined. Mathews beat possibly two ranked light heavies Murphy definitely and maybe Nardico was ranked then.
    Halfway into1951 Mathews was a middleweight fighting middles.
    He was only 4lbs over the lhvy limit when he faced Marciano.
    You are drawing an analogy that verges on the ridiculous and nothing personal in that remark.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021 at 9:01 AM
  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It doesn’t often take much to earn a ranking. Usually it’s by beating other ranked men. He beat the number two hw but still wasn’t ranked. Moore for years beat ranked men. And wasn’t ranked. I get it you don’t like Matthews for whatever reason but look at the rankings of any year and you’ll find fodder with much worse records. here are the 52 rankings from ring

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    11. do you really think Matthews wasn’t better then most of this list considering he beat the 2 and 3 on it? Rankings don’t mean much to me. Results do. Harold Johnson and Moore were two of the best contenders at Hw ever and they couldn’t get rankings (not sure Johnson ever got one despite his success). I don’t think the era was weak either. Most eras only have a good top three. Within a five year window. I understand your point it’s not a terrible one I just don’t agree. I think Matthews was a good fighter. You don’t accumulate that record unless you are even if much was fodder. His only losses (7) were three to Cockel who he matched up poorly with. One to Booker and Chase while he was on military leave (wasn’t training) one to Marciano and the other to a vet Burke when he was extremely green. In other words he really on Lost to decent fighters. Take it how you will I don’t think we will find much common ground on Matthews.
     
  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Firstly I don't accept he beat Charles, it's gone down as an infamous robbery.Secondly,as Ive shown Moore and Mathews are not even vaguely similar Moore beat world champions and 5 ranked heavyweight contenders whilst he waited for his title shot.Mathews beat Layne, Nardico, and Murphy , whoop de doo!
     
  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In the 1st round, Matthews floored Charles with a left hook, followed by a right hand to the chin. Charles arose at the count of three. Through much of the fight, Matthews utilized an effective left jab, mixed in with a right hand to keep Charles from mounting an effective offense. Matthews landed several rights in the 7th round, which had Charles groggy to end the round. Charles was warned three times for low blows in the bout, landing a particularly hard one right before the final bell.

    this sounds like a robbery to you? Are there more sources to this fight because this doesn’t spell robbery.


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  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In a blatantly obvious hometown decision, Referee Jack Dempsey scored 2 rounds for Layne, 1 round for Charles with 7 rounds even. Most objective observers felt Charles had won. During the fight Layne butted Charles repeatedly without caution from the referee.

    Legendary cornerman and trainer Ray Arcel said,"Instead of adding dignity to the fight game, Dempsey has added disgrace."


    "While there still may reamin lingering doubts in the minds of some fight fans as to the superiority of Rex Layne over Ezzard Charles, the International Boxing Club made its stand clear Saturday by offering Layne a title shot at the winner of the Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott fight. Even as the fans continued their arguments over referee Jack Dempsey's verdict Friday, which gave the underdog Layne a surprise decision over Charles, the IBC stepped forward with its blessing for Layne." -Salt Lake Tribune

    Unofficial scorecards



    • Ring Magazine - 5-5 Draw
    • Salt Lake Tribune - 6-3-1 Charles
    • Rocky Mountain News - 5-3-2 Charles
     
  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So the narrative here is:

    Lowry went out and was beating the brakes off Marciano, a guy who was undefeated but basically at this point a local attraction and certainly not a guy tabbed as the next big thing in the heavyweight division — in short, he wasn’t a guy anyone would go far out of their way to protect.

    Then after the fifth round or so, ‘the mob’ realized their cherished and protected commodity was in trouble and suddenly decided Marciano was a man who must win at all costs. So ‘the mob’ … sent someone to Lowry’s corner and told him to dial it down?

    Likewise, at this same point these mobsters in their fine Italian suits mid-fight approached the three judges at ringside with an offer they can’t refuse to score it for Marciano?

    It lacks credulity. Why not fix it ahead of time if Marciano is worth protecting? Why not tell Lowry exactly what round and for that matter what soft spot of the ring they wanted him to go down? More or less all he’s known for is going the distance with some tough guys, so why not fix it so Marciano sparks him in one or two rounds and you can say ‘our guy easily took out a guy who is difficult to put and keep down’?

    There’s so many things wrong with this scenario that just don’t add up.
     
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