[1955] Don C0ckell on Marciano's Power

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Sort of interesting quote from C0ckell, in his dressing room right after the fight.

    From U.P., "Rocky's Slaughter of C0ckell Halted in 9," Detroit Free Press, May 17, 1955


    "However, C0ckell did not share his sentiments. C0ckell said, "I would like to fight Marciano again any place any time. He's not the hardest-hitting man I ever fought. He just hits more often."



    EDIT: From another article:

    Also Scott Baillie, "C0ckell Wants Marciano Again Despite Beating from Champ, Journal, May 17, 1955:

    "A chap called Johnny Barton, who felled me about eight times while beating me in 1948, hit harder than Marciano," C0ckell said as he sat glumly on a bench in his stuff dressing room. "But I must say that Rocky is the most persistent fellow I ever fought."
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Yes I've read his comments.
     
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    *cough* volume puncher.

    It seems no matter how many opponents mention that marciano overwhelms you with sheer volume, and the fact Marciano's stoppages in many cases occur in later rounds than other fighters against the same opponent, people will continue to maintain the contradictory belief that he was a "devastating 1 punch ko artist" who threw with tons of volume.
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I'm starting to think you might have a point...
     
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  5. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Handing SHW supremacists Ls Full Member

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    Marciano himself acknowledged that his power was off in the fight

    It truly was his worst showing, sad that he fell out of his prime so quickly
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I suppose Joe Louis was a volume puncher? Because Walcott and sparring partners for both say Marciano hit harder. What’s with all these posters that try to discredit Marciano? Do they get a kick out of it?
     
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Know nothings like to point to the Don fight as a emphasis on Marciano’s power when in fact it just shows when his decline hit full force. He also wasn’t the same for Archie looking much slower then normal imo. I don’t get the obsession with folk who like to quote one man but not another. Plenty of other Marciano opponents attend to his power.
     
  8. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Handing SHW supremacists Ls Full Member

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    He was already having back issues and wanting to retire by the beginning of 1955. His last prime fight imo was Charles 2. Cockell was going life and death with KO2 victim of Marciano Harry Matthews

    Interestingly enough I do think he was a bit more motivated for the Moore fight than the Cockell fight seeing as how he came in a bit lighter and the fight had more significance

    Cockell, after he retired said Nino Valdes hit harder than Marciano (Valdes stopped him out in 3, Cockell was in the worst shape of his life). Archie Moore, whom went the distance with Valdes twice, said Marciano hit harder. Just food for thought

    Walcott and Louis both quoted Marciano as the hardest puncher they ever fought. Layne said he was the best fighter he ever fought as well. LaStarza said something that implied it.
     
  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Moore’s trash talk and better resume woke him up. But he was def slower that fight then normal.
     
  10. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Handing SHW supremacists Ls Full Member

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    Quite lacking in explosiveness, agreed.

    I have an interview quote where Marciano basically admits he's on the downturn, he said he only sparred half the rounds for Moore that he did for Walcott, and that his overall training was lighter. After the Moore fight during the offseason, Charley Goldman and him were talking when Marciano realized to himself something terrible. "I haven't been taking my daily walks". The warrior spirit in him was dead.

    Combine this with recurring back issues (which kept him from serious training some days) ((ultimately leading up to him herniating a disk in '56)) and you have grounds for retiring

    This content is protected


    ^ a few newspaper clippings on him herniating a disk
     
  11. Clean & Crisp

    Clean & Crisp RockIsTheThing-LifeHasNoMeaning&MoneyIsKing Full Member

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    It's still real to me damn it!
     
  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Louis has nothing to do with this conversation, but to address what you said the irony is

    -Louis was a boxer puncher who fought at a more relaxed and methodical pace, operating behind a jab, setting up feints and counters, etc. He rarely hit with full force until he saw clear openings or knew his opponent was hurt. In contrast, rocky threw with bad intentions with almost every punch. He was the very definition of a slugger/volume hitter. The psychological effect is that if boxer A (Louis) throws 50 punches and only 15 are power punches while boxer B (rocky) throws a barrage of 50 straight power punches your pain receptors will tell your brain boxer B hits harder.
    -Louis ko'd Walcott faster than rocky did.
    -walcott was younger and less shopwon against Louis.
    -Louis actually kod Savold down for the count while rocky couldn't floor him.
    -Louis ko'd way more men who were over 200 lbs (buddy Baer, max Baer, galento, Simone, Carnera, etc). The majority of Rocky's best opponents were significantly smaller than these men.
    -as mentioned in my previous post, Rocky has on several occasions taken even longer to ko or stop an opponent than other fighters. This is even more glaring when you consider those opponents were older and more shopworn when rocky faced them.

    I am not saying these factors "prove" Louis hit harder but its not easy to dismiss them.

    Finally, I want to add that I believe that as far as representation of the various boxing styles are concerned, (volume puncher, brawler, counter puncher, boxer puncher, outside fighter, etc) Rocky Marciano is, in my opinion, the greatest volume puncher at heavyweight.

    It is absolutely praiseworthy that he is able to operate at such a taxing pace with such a small body and short arms. Dragging an opponent down to your level and forcing them to fight at your pace in and of itself requires skill, just as much as a mover forcing his opponent to pursue him requires skill. Marciano would obviously need to put in insane amounts of cardio and bag work to be able to punch hard for 15 rounds straight. So he is clearly both a very hard worker and skilled enough to make the most of the tools he had while minimizing his weaknesses.

    What's wrong with rocky being the #1 of his style and the greatest volume puncher if his weight? That's as high as You can get when it comes tp praise and assessing a fighters abilities. You act as if these are insults. He obviously hits hard but he isnt the devastating 10/10 or even 9/10 puncher some of his more extreme fans claim. And, here's the kicker, several opponents have claimed hes a volume puncher but of course you are going to cherry pick quotes.
     
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  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    @Jackomano mentioned that Goldman himself claimed that several fighters hit harder than Marciano but lacked his stamina and volume. For what it's worth.
     
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  14. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Handing SHW supremacists Ls Full Member

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    He didn't claim multiple. He claimed 1. Oscar Bonavena, as a way to hype him up. Bonavena never 1 punch KO'd a top 15 heavyweight in the 13th round. Pretty sus if you ask me.
     
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  15. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Verifies my assertion that Marciano was nothing more (and nothing less) than a good, little attrition puncher.

    Isn't he cute?