[1955] Don C0ckell on Marciano's Power

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It was on a show called the Way it Was.

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Was Marciano merely a less athletic but more in shape Butterbean? A circuit haymaker thrower who took advantage of a depleted level of fighter?

I think we may have found our most exact analogy.

 

No.

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There is no such thing as a style advantage. Only Tactical advantages played out within a style. Any fighter whatever his style can beat another style of fighter by imposing the right tactics within his style for that kind of fighter. A guy wins when he fights the fight he needs to fight by stopping the other guy do what he is good at. Walcott was an out and out counter puncher. A cutie. But he could punch with both hands. And box. Marciano lost more rounds than he won but he had Walcott fight his fight. He dragged him into a war. It had nothing to do with style. Stop trying to categorise everyone, you need to get past this.

yes Marciano brutalised a lot of fighters during battles of attrition. But he also one timed a lot of fighters too. So he was a hybrid.

Walcott was still taken out with one shot. Layne was take out with one shot. If there was more film I am certain we could both list more fighters put to sleep with one shot by Marciano. All those early knockouts were not battles of attrition.

 

Both were taken out after rounds of protracted,incessant bombardment.
Marciano concentrated on Layne's soft mid riff to slow him up sap his strength and bring his hands down .It was a strategy devised by Goldman [who had matched his fighter Cesar Brion with Layne and noticed he was vulnerable to the body , ]and implemented with success by Marciano.
As the fight went into the later stages, Walcott began resorting to leaning back on the ropes to steal a rest for his aging legs, coming off them he threw a shot and got timed by a Marciano right.
Both Layne and Walcott had absorbed heavy punishment before the ko.
Those early kos were mostly over 4th raters whom just about any capable heavyweight would have been odds on to beat and stop, they had 117 ko losses between them, stopping the majority of those names was certainly no big feat!
One of the better opponents Schkor had been kod inside a round in his previous fight by Walcott,the extent off his remaining ambition can be measured by the fact that he promptly retired after the Marciano fight! Sixteen of Marciano's opponents retired immediately after facing him.

 

Twenty one gimmees on his record.

 

I gave you only his 10 round fights. Not his giMmes. Do you believe most fighters or every great one faces better competition or you only scrutinize Marciano’s record like this? You think much more highly of third raters like Williams whom literally beat or knocked out anyone? What I’m getting at is why look at Marcianos record the way you do and not criticize say Foreman? Holmes? Etc? I’ve been on this site long enough now to notice no one gets obsessed over nor criticized like Marcianos record. I don’t get the obsession with him.

 

Im scrutinizing Marciano's record because he is singularly unique in that his adoring fans constantly make claims for him that are nonsensical. I don't accept that Williams was a third rater he was a ranked heavyweight for 4 consecutive years, until he was shot.

Foreman's early opposition is better than Marciano's as is Holmes' and neither were fighting light heavyweights.

 

Rather than a lack of accuracy, I think he used his punches simply to create pressure and close distance.

we’re used to fighters only throwing power shots with the intent to catch an opening for a KO. Which he sometimes did (Walcott, Layne). But often Rocky threw a haymaker with a high likelihood of missing to control his opponent.
And with his style it often did the opposite of leaving him vulnerable, as it would most fighters.

I don’t think the “he hit so hard your arms would hurt” motif was just a product of his power, but also his style.

 

Holmes lost to a LHW lol and Foreman’s opposition is notoriously bad especially in the later part of his career as well as being careful about whom he faced. Find nothing wrong with it and love Foreman but the arguments don’t make sense.

 

Take Rockys resume, and assume an elite ATG power puncher had the same career. You’d expect them to have stellar results. The exact same results that, well, Marciano had...

 

Marciano missed punches and fell over in several fights,that's 1.A lack of accuracy 2.A lack of balance . I don't believe Marciano ever threw a punch with the intention of missing his opponent. ps did you see that Jack Johnson link?

 

Every power puncher has slipped and fell over. Louis, the most accurate HW ever, Wilder, Lewis, etc

I did, and I got the book! Waiting for it to ship. Have you read it?? Seems like you uncovered a gem. I’ll let you know how it is!

 

Okay you brought their names up for comparison lets do that.

Foreman
38th fight ' Frazier for the title.
36th Paez '48-15-3
33rd Gullick .15-5-1
32ndPires. 18-7-1
31st Peralta. 82-6-8
24th Kirkman.22-1-0
22nd Chuvalo.59-15-2
19th Eastling.19-7-2
18th Woody.14-5-1
17th Brassell.13-2-0
16th Peralta.77-5-8
15th Halloran.18-5-2
8th Davila.21-14-0
4th Wepner.19-4-2

Debut Waldheim. 5-4-2

Holmes
30th Norton.40-4-0 For the title.
29th Shavers.54-6-1
28thArrington.22-3-1
24thWilliams.23-4-0
18th Bobick.34-5-0
15thEnglish.15-5-0
6th Judge.14-3-1
5th Bozic.12-1-0

Marciano
35th fight Applegate.11-14-3
34th Henri.13-15-1
33rd Mitchell.4-14-3
32nd Simmons.8-0-0-
27th Eatman.22-20-5
18thHaft. 12-7-0 Haft 174lbs
15th Walls.9-15-1
14th Donato.7-10-0
12th Ferron.4-10-0
10th Jefferson.2-2-0 Jefferson172lbs
9th Cardone.Debut
8th Hardeman.1-4-0
7th Jackson.4-2-0
6th Weeks. Debut
5th Ross .15-0-1 Ross 175lbs

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