[1955] Don C0ckell on Marciano's Power

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Yeah, people talk about this fight as if Walcott ran around the ring untouched for 12+ rounds before being caught by a single, perfect punch. An already extremely fatigued Walcott ate that punch in the 12th round and stayed on his feet.
     
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  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    \

    This pleases me to no end.

    You aren't a student of the sweet science. You're a cult member.
     
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I think both are true. Marciano was an exceptionally inaccurate puncher (for an elite boxer) who used his punches to create pressure and close distance. He had to fight that recklessly given his limitations, and he was successful doing so because he could wear down and outlast his physically overmatched foes.
     
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dammit Seamus now what am I supposed to do with these 42 packs of Styrofoam cups i bought on sale? I can't convince hundreds of boxing fans to drink my suicide serum if you blow the lid on everything.

    Now I've got to let myself get banned and start over with my alt account.
     
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I agree with much of this but I think physical attributes matter a lot too (maybe especially at heavyweight).

    Marciano's biggest advantages in this fight were physical. He had far more stamina than Old Man Walcott and a much sturdier chin. And he probably hit harder. Those physical advantages mattered more in the fight than any stylistic issues, imo. Walcott fought Marciano's fight in part because he was too old and tired to do otherwise.
     
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  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Not to mince words, but I don’t agree with reckless. Reckless gets you countered and knocked out. Obviously there’s varying degrees, and perhaps you mean to a reasonable one.

    To me he fought in a pressure rhythm, with ebbs and and flows. Intentionally throwing punches knowing the chances of connecting were minimal, in order to force the opponent to a more vulnerable position. With his small stature and his particular style, he was able to deal with counters effectively, and used opponents countering opportunities against them to return counters more quickly and effectively, and to get into a better position to pressure and land more meaningful punches.
     
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  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I get where you're coming from but I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong though--I don't mean to suggest that he was reckless like an untrained drunk barroom brawler, or anything like that. But I don't buy that he was playing the kind of chess you describe. Not when he was punching himself off balance, missing people by feet, and missing open targets anyway (and, yeah, others have done similar things but he did them more frequently).

    Like I've argued ad nauseum in the past, I think his tactics would have been far less effective against good big men, especially distance fighters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
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  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This was a good read, one of the most underrated aspects of a fighter is ,,,,the warrior spirit, or as I said after Duran lost to Laing,,,the eye of the tiger is gone. perhaps that's what fighters who have been making money going on for years lose, that zest for combat. It's hard to rekindle
     
  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Apparently there are only six of them in all existence because only six of them knocked out people faster. If people said Jeffries was an attrition puncher they would be correct because he took 12 rounds to KO his opponents but when you knock them out in 4 it really doesn’t compute.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Louis,Wilder,Tyson,Fitzsimmons,Sullivan.
    Baer in some fights when he wasn't playing the clown.Dempsey on occasion.Liston.
    Not that many.The best of the non champs,Langford ,then probably Satterfield, Sheppard
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Jeffries was a an attrition puncher imo, as was Frazier.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Apparently that's your take on it ,nobody else has said so!
     
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  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Marciano either ground people down or one punch kayoed them.

    I don’t know why he has to be either or. Rocky did both.
     
  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It’s because he must be taken down a peg or two. Some people don’t like him or some people don’t like his fans whatever the case.
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    He was essentially an attrition puncher imo.
    This is the very definition of an attrition stoppage.

    Life magazine reported: "Trying to knock the challenger out with one punch, the 29-year-old Marciano was over-eager and awkward. He lunged, butted, hit below the belt, on the break and after the bell. Once, he swung so wildly that he missed and slipped clumsily to the canvas. Outboxing the champion and avoiding his blows, LaStarza managed to win four of the first six rounds. In the seventh, Marciano changed his tactics, started aiming at LaStarza's body as well as his head in an attempt to wear the challenger down. He succeeded."
    • The Associated Press reported: "Sliced around both eyes and bleeding from a cut on the bridge of his nose, the well-battered LaStarza took a tremendous beating in the last five rounds before Referee
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      wisely stopped the slaughter."
    • The referee took the sixth round away from Marciano for a low blow.
    • Marciano knocked LaStarza through the ropes and onto the ring apron in the eleventh round."
    This is an attrition puncher at work.

    "It was as tough as my first fight with
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    , maybe tougher," said the 29-year-old unbeaten Marciano, who went 15 rounds for the first time in his career. It was only the sixth time Rocky had to win by votes of the officials and one of the very few in which he failed to floor his opponent. He swept his other 40 by knockouts.

    For four rounds it was all Charles. The 185½-pound, 18-5 underdog boxed beautifully. Then the 187½-pound Rocky, bleeding profusely from a wide, inch-and-a-quarter gash over his left eye, came on.

    The muscular, bulldozing champion almost put Ezzy away in the sixth, kept driving until he was ahead slightly by the 10th, and then almost stowed Charles away several times in the later rounds. In the last, he battered the swollen-faced, hands-down challenger all over the ring.

    The officials' votes brought no protests except from the Charles camp. Referee Ruby Goldstein had it 8-5-2, Judge Harold Barnes 8-6-1 and Judge Arthur Aidala 9-5-1. "
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019