1969 - Ali v Frazier

Liston and Foreman were the two mentioned by a poster .If you would like to see further detail on Frazier's chances against big Bangers with durability there were several lengthy threads on this recently,with very good input by the likes of Chris Pontius and several others ,both for and against.If you want a list of punchers that, I think would beat Frazier, ok.
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Lewis
.
Possibly the Klitshkos,those are the Champs.
In with a chance, Jeffries,Baer .Contenders,Lyle,Shavers,Godfrey,Langford. Ive left out the boxer /puncher types like Wills to conform to your description.

 

:huh

I am mystified why you are railing against me,is it because you think I am attacking Frazier? By the way you did not mention how many Frazier fights you have seen,JUST how Few you assumed I have> I don't really know what your argument is if you like Smokin Joe ,fine we both seem to agree he gets beat by Foreman so WTF?:huh

 

The why didnt he win the other two fights?

 

I agree with Dempsey, Louis and Marciano but the rest would not win IMO. Lewis is not a sure bet but I'am slightly leaning toward him. Wlad doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of beating Frazier, he wouldn't be able to deal with the pressure and he can't take a punch well. Lyle wouldn't be able to keep up with Frazier's stamina and relentless attack and would lose by either late TKO/KO or UD. Shavers had a puncher's chance but would be stopped as he wasn't on the same level as Frazier. I don't much about Godfrey to make a prediction. Frazier is too big and strong for Sam and would overpower him by the mid rounds.

 

Most of Langford's opponents were bigger than him,some by a considerable margin ,but it did not stop him scoring 130 kos ,I venture to suggest he hit appreciably harder than Frazier and had a better chin.I didn't say he would beat Frazier,but that he would be in with a chance.I said possibly the Klitschkos ,I fancy Vitaly 's chances more than Wlad's ,who seems to **** himself if his opponent throws anything in his direction.Wlad would have to fight an untypical fight, come out fast and aggressive, to take advantage of the often slow starting Frazier.Lyle ,likely would flag after a good start ,but as we never saw Frazier overcome a genuine Big Bomber ,it could be interesting.Likewise Shavers.

 

I think a fighter would have to have the right style as well as have a punch and a good chin. Mathis who had decent pop, was a durable fighter who was only knocked out twice in his career by Frazier and Lyle. He just didn't have the right style to beat Frazier.

Shavers could put Frazier down but he would be broken down in the middle to later rounds and would be KO'd, he had an below average to average chin and KO/TKO would be certain in this fight.

 

I narrowly favour Ali to win the first, but regardless if he lost it i think he would come back and beat Joe in the rematch.

 

FOTC was the best version of Frazier, no doubt, but since Ali was past his prime for all three fights the other two should merit a mention too, I reckon. Ali was, after all, arguably further removed from his prime in all of them.

 

Shavers could put Frazier down ,agreed the question is is he likely to keep him there? As Frazier faced very few really big punchers ,the answer is open to argument. Mathis was doing ok against Frazier ,and was leading after 7 rds but his stamina gave out ,he was never in the best of shape to begin with ,and his kos are all scored over lower tier fighters,he was not ranked at all going in to the fight with Frazier .Talking of chins Fraziers was largely untested against bombers ,and the only times it was, it failed.

 

Well, yeah but he wasn't as removed from his best as Frazier was in 74 (i don't mean years here by the way). A top fighter seldom recovers the way Joe did after his loss to George. This wasn't just a quick KO or a pre-championship loss but an absolute mauling. It's to his credit that he retained any ego after that.

 

Me neither. I was making the point that he was way past his best by 1974, especially after the Foreman embarrassment.

 

They don't? Tyszu-Phillips? Louis-Schmelling 1? Wlad-Sanders (not as bad)? Actually Ali himself may have taken as much punnishment himself against Frazier and Norton, Ali took some sustained punnishment despite not being ko'd