1969 - Ali v Frazier

I think you are on the fairy dust Tinkerbell.

 

Let me simplify this for all those who think Frazier had devastating one shot power. HOW many opponents had 10 counted over them?
" Absolutely brilliant career" ?
Record against ATG's won 1 lost 4.

 

No doubt we ALL have an ATG or two we think is mucho overrated.

Would i be correct to say Frazier might be yours?

 

I really don't see all the hate about an ATG like Frazier. He had a great career.

 

I think Joe Frazier had a heart as big as a building ,he was a great fighter,I would put him around no 11 ,just behind Marciano.The night he fought Ali in Madison Square Garden ,his readiness to accept pain ,and punishment ,and still keep coming was awesome.I have the highest respect for him as a fighter ,and as a man.I can find no logical reason why he should have beaten an Ali who did not go into exile for nearly 4 years ,UNLESS Ali underated him ,a prime motivated Ali ,who I contend we NEVER saw beats Frazier ,that is my case.I do not hate Frazier ,I saw him once in London at the fights ,I wish I had gone up to him and told him how much I admired his courage and determination,for a regretably short time he was a great warrior ,who would have given ANY Champ a very interesting evening

 

Fair enough. You seem to come down on Frazier a bit and rate him below the consensus and i thought i'd give you the floor to explain things a bit deeper. As i said, we've all got our fighters we rate less than others do. Mine would be Hagler and Pryor. Red's would be, ummmm, SRL not to mention Monzon etc.

Cheers

 

Again, at least since the advent of relatively "modern" refereeing, NO ONE wins most of his fights by 10-count KO- for example, here are George Foreman's major knockouts:
Gregorio Peralta- an old ex-middleweight, went the distance the first time and was stopped on his feet in the 10th round the second time
George Chuvalo- stopped on his feet
Joe Frazier- stopped on his feet both times (see how silly that is?)
Ken Norton- stopped on his feet (")
Michael Moorer- knocked out for 10, but he was an ex-light heavyweight and it was in the 10th round
Ron Lyle- knocked out for 10 in a fight Foreman nearly lost before finally putting him away with an absolute maelstrom of punches

If we also note the Ali, Young, Holyfield, Moorer and Briggs fights, this amounts to a grand total of two 10-count KO wins in Foreman's 13 major fights. Foreman's ONLY 10-count knockout over a prime, ranked, natural heavyweight was the Lyle fight, and he just barely pulled that one off.

And looking at Foreman's record as a whole, it appears that fewer than 25 of his 68 recorded knockouts were actual 10-count KOs, most of those being over obscure easy-mark opposition.

-Olympic Gold Medalist
-World heavyweight champion
-undefeated in the first eight years of his professional career
-mastered every other elite heavyweight of the late '60s
-won the Fight of the Century, dealing Muhammad Ali his first professional loss

But you're right- losing to two of the greatest champions of all time while past one's prime, one of them by slivers in brutally-contested wars, is a sure sign of an average ol' run-of-the-mill ham-and-egger.

 

how do you setup a poll thread

 

When you make a new thread, at the bottom there's an option "add a poll to this thread". Mark that option, then if you create the thread, you get a new menu to create the options, etc. That ought to help. :good

 

Frazier had 9kos ,that is count outs .Foreman had 25,see the difference?.Frazier was past his prime ,I suppose Ali was in the middle of his No one called Frazier a ham and egger I gave my opinion of him in my last post.

 

Frazier won more with heart, determination, and stamina, then raw power. After seeing most of the fights you have, that is my opnion.

I do think Frazier was a great fighter, but I also see him as a limited great fighter. Frazier had no plan B, didn't have much of a right hand, and IMO had a mediocre chin by the standards of other ATG's. Frazier’s prime came and went quickly. And his title opponents as champion aside from Foreman were rather poor. I also think Frazier’s resume of wins is good, but a tad over rated in terms of who he beat.

As I said before, fights with Shavers, Lyle, and Norton could have really “ upped “ Frazier’s resume.

 

We are on the same page regarding Smokin Joe ,unfortunately any objective appraisal of him is seen by some, as a personal slur on his record.

 

And against the Fab 5, Duran went 1-5

 

Frazier wasn't a hard puncher, fancy taking 1 of his left hooks? I dont and I dont think anyone had Ali seeing stars like Frazier did in their first fight

 

A hard puncher yes , an alltime great puncher no,there is a difference.I think Ali was more hurt by Cooper actually,against Frazier he got up as soon as he went down .