1969 Smokin Joe Frazier

What are you talking about? I don't care about any love squabbles between Frazier and Ali.If Frazier wants to wish to death upon Ali one year and then want to make up with him the next,that's completely his choice.Frankly,I could not care less.I don't particularly care for his spousal abuse in front of his own children,or the numerous lawsuits that he's either filed or threatened to file against others,mind you - but much of my dislike of Frazier is purely boxing-related.



I assure you that I'm really not bothered what anyone on an internet forum thinks of me.Strange as it may sound,I just don't care.

 

No.My access to the history section there has been disabled,but I'm still posting around those parts.

 

I think i found footage of a Wlad-Frazier sparring session(rare footage)

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While I don't think Frazier had a glass jaw, it was certainly suspect vs punchers. People say Norton has a suspect chin. Ok--Ali hurt Frazier far worse than he hurt Norton.

I also feel Frazier's management avoided matches with heavyweight punchers such as Liston, Mac Foster, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, and Ernie Shavers. Perhaps 2-3 of these matches could not have been made, but his two title opponents after he beat Ali were non top ten ripoffs. Why re-match Ellis when bigger fish were there to fry? Why pick Daniels and Stander as title opponents when there were far better fighters out there?

Finally Frazier should have entered the WBA tournament, instead of fighting for the NY state heavyweight title.

 

fair points and i don't know enough about the historical or political context of the 70s heavyweight landscape to speculate why he didn't fight certain guys. two things i can say:

1) his post ali defenses were ****
2)from everything i've seen, he had a damn sturdy chin against good/very good punchers

 

Originally Posted by Mendoza [url]

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While I don't think Frazier had a glass jaw, it was certainly suspect vs punchers. People say Norton has a suspect chin. Ok--Ali hurt Frazier far worse than he hurt Norton.

I also feel Frazier's management avoided matches with heavyweight punchers such as Liston, Mac Foster, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, and Ernie Shavers. Perhaps 2-3 of these matches could not have been made, but his two title opponents after he beat Ali were non top ten ripoffs. Why re-match Ellis when bigger fish were there to fry? Why pick Daniels and Stander as title opponents when there were far better fighters out there?

Finally Frazier should have entered the WBA tournament, instead of fighting for the NY state heavyweight title.

Which very good punchers. Bonevena nearly KO'd him. Frazier even says so. Quarry to me was a solid hitter, calling him very good stretches it a bit. The only top level puncher Frazier fought was Foreman, and Foreman easily put him down.

I have seen Frazier knees buckle by perhaps the only solid punch a defensive minded Bugner landed. Even Stander who did not land much buckled Frazier's knees before the limited but game Stander took a beating.

Frazier was dropped in his second pro fight vs. a no name. In the Olympics, he was also floored prior to the gold medal match.

Using the above evidence in a relatively short pro and amateur career, the best conclusion is Frazier chin was sub par by ATG standards, and most certainly suspect to top level punchers, which his management most likely avoided.

 

:thinkas i was writing it i was thinking of bonevena, but yeah he ****ing dropped joe twice in that first match. i rate quarry and chuvalo (come on, i'm canadian i HAVE to) as good/very good punchers. i haven't watched him and bugner, mainly cause i've heard how **** it was. didn't foster stun frazier in the first round of their fight? admittedly, foster is possibly the hardest hitting 175 pounder ever but he did nothing at heavy.

ali was also a very good puncher when he put beef into it and joe was only really hurt in the 2nd fight during that ill fated round where the ref misheard the bell. i feel im twisting facts a bit now but i've always thought of joe as having a great beard but the evidence is not backing it up. it shouldn't be considered an issue of balance either as his style necessitated being low to the ground, with a low centre of gravity

 

You don't have to be Canadian to rate Chuvalo as a very good puncher.

 

Very fair. I think Chavalo was good for boxing, and very honest outside the ring. Chavalo serves as the ambassador for the 60's and 70's of heavyweight boxing.

 

Frazier came back and beat Bonavena. Early Frazier fight. Knees can buckle when hit right on that certain spot. Frazier gets hit often swarming in. As I said,
he still beat Bonavena, obviously twice. Bugner caught Joe with a good shot,
but Joe still won. As a matter of fact, Frazier had Bugner out on his feet
and let him off the hook. Quarry hurt Lyle and ko'd Shavers. Frazier beat Quarry twice. Ali hurt Joe, but look at the volume of shots Joe took. Joe continued
on. Joe Frazier does not have a glass jaw.

 

i don't think anyone on here would classify it as glass. however the ring made a very good observation years ago when they said that the ali fights and foreman fights gave people a skewed perception of fraziers jaw. it was not as concrete as ali made it appear nor as fragile as foreman made it appear. in reality, it's somewhere near the middle. he was tough as nails but could be hurt, especially early.