1973 Foreman vs 1988 Tyson

Foreman had a colossal heart...he proved it vs Lyle for all time.

 

Foreman fought alot of big punchers, the foreman lyle fight convinces me no power puncher save for lewis could have a chance of beating foreman as foreman likely would just get back up and pummel the guy into dust.

 

Name the punchers Foreman fought?

 

Im always on the fence about this fight. Especially the toughness Foreman showed
in the Lyle fight and the awesome specimen he was in the Ali fight. But, Sangria, my
dude you bring up a point I dont recall in this thread or all of its incarnations.
Is Lyle the only legit nuclear bomb type of puncher 70s Foreman faced? I
believe so. Norton Frazier, Chuvalo arent on that level. So by that rationale
Tyson can surely drop Foreman. Tough one I look at George in the Ali fight
and I say noone aside from Ali can beat this guy, I look at Tyson in the spinks
fight and I say, noone can beat this guy.

 

I favor Foreman although I think Tyson is a very live underdog.

The Frazier fight shows some of the stylistic problems (to say the least) that Tyson faces. Tyson was a faster starter than Frazier with a better punch variety, Frazier's advantages over Tyson would show more in the latter rounds, and Frazier was outta there before the mid rounds.

I think those Foreman uppercuts would take a toll on Tyson. Tyson showed some vulnerabilities to uppercuts throughout his career. Not uncommon for shorter swarmers.

 

Here's a post form IronChamp from a while back:

"As for the thread, a Tyson Foreman fight (prime for prime) is an exciting match up but it ultimately favors Tyson.

Here's why:

1. To beat Tyson, you need to go after him very early, but you have to be elusive throughout the fight. Foreman can go after him but he won't keep him from landing. You don't outgun Tyson; you outmaneuver him. Tyson has never been frustrated in a fight where he's getting hit, only in fights where he can't respond.

Douglas kept him away with lateral movement, speed and long jab and right hand leads. He'd tie him up rinse and repeat. Douglas was never really hit flush throughout the fight but he did finally get tagged in the 8th round and down he went. Tyson was clearly spent at that time but better preparation would have meant that Tyson would have had the energy to close the show in the 9th round.

Holyfield fought him different but he essentially blocked, wrestled, used lateral movement and timed him in ways Foreman simply couldn't replicate. Everything Tyson threw was thrwarted, blocked or simply hit air. Tyson occasionally landed some pretty telling blows but not enough to neutralize Holyfield's planned. He was outworked, and out maneuvered but not outgunned.

Lewis fought a shell of Tyson but still maintained a very strict game plan, he went after Tyson early to get his respect. He kept his distance throughout the fight and dominated behind a purposeful jab throwing mammoth right hands that in all probability rival Foreman's power over and over again until Jim Lampley was just amazed at Tyson's durability. Then he dropped the boom when Tyson had nothing left.

None of those guys stayed in range for Tyson to get his shots in, and those guys were able to avoid Tyson's onslaught. Let me be clear. They didn't survive his onslaught, they avoided it and they did this using lateral movement, a competent jab and technical savvy. Foreman doesn't resemble this at all. His jab in his first career was competent but still very mundane. His power was top notch but his durability and stamina was even more questionable than Tyson's as the rounds progressed. He can be dropped by single hard shots early in fights (Lyle) and his stamina can sometimes let him down (Ali) and his focus, like Tyson sometimes wanders (Young). Tyson only loses to guys who get to him early and beat him over the course of the fight and need the later rounds to finish the job. He doesn't go down early and has had experience in 12 round fights. He's twice trained for 15 round fights (Tubbs/Biggs) and has maintain a steady punch output in the later rounds showing that he can go the rounds and still be dangerous. In effect, Tyson's shortcomings aren't going to be exploited by Foreman simply because the only way Foreman is going to win is by out-muscling him and out firing him.

2. Foreman lost to Muhammad Ali primarily because his inability to deal with Ali's hand speed. Tyson at 20-22 has faster hands than Ali at 32. Tyson's ability to rip off combinations made him pretty difficult to beat. I envision Tyson beating Foreman to the punch consistently and keeping George on the defensive in each encounter. Will Foreman land his own bombs? Yes. Will he land enough in succession? No, he'd be countered frequently enough with power that rivals his own that it won't be the balls to wall fight that everyone thinks it would. It would be fought at a surprisingly measured pace. Both Foreman and Tyson would apply pressure but the fight would be a scenario where Tyson is stalking-not Foreman. Foreman would fight on the back foot occasionally pressing forward similar to the Lyle fight. He'll provide resistance with his aggression but he won't be able to elude Tyson's retaliation and or onslaught nor will he beat him to the punch.

His shortcomings all favor Tyson and If I had to lay down a bet I'd pick Mike to stop him in 6 rounds with 1 knockdown to his credit while being ahead on cards at the time of stoppage.

Anyone who tells you different without taking into account what I've said, is someone who has already made up their minds, with other people's ideas."

 

^ Spinks was a light heavyweight who moved up and was able to conquer the division because it was weak and splintered you pretty much had 4 champions for most of the 80s unlike Tyson came and unified the title. That was pretty big, because it was the first time since ali you had a single undisputed heavyweight champ. With the exception of tyson and a washed up shavers no real heavypunchers in the 80s so spinks could move up as a technical boxer. Heck if not for tyson perhaps he would have ended up fighting holyfield instead. I seen Frazier drop some serious boxers he sure does have the power to drop any boxer, he dropped ali for christ sake. Boxing is not about how much power you have, but how much power you can deliver. And frazier certainly was great at it.

 

Eh, commented way too many times on these threads already, so I don't know why I'm doing it now.

It's a tough fight for both I think. George was a monster with extremely heavy hands. Tyson was a different type of puncher, with more penetrative type of power but less heaviness to his punch.
But I think heart and a great chin, plus a few variables, decides this outcome. Power is a non-factor because both men can hurt the other.

I will say that if Foreman can back Tyson up, then it's going to be a very tough night for Mike. George with that momentum behind him was a very scary guy. Tyson didn't do too well on the back foot.
George was much more hittable though and Tyson does have significantly quicker hands, is a better combination puncher and a better counter-puncher by miles.

I think the guy who can keep to his his preferred range the most and impose his will on the other guy wins this fight. I can see a Foreman win, but I can also see a Tyson win. Very difficult fight to pick with any degree of certainty.

 

Good post by IronChamp, & he might be correct. However:

I do not see why Tyson backs up Foreman. Sometimes Lyle did, as sometimes Ruddock took the offensive & Tyson froze, but Foreman was even more post peak due to only the 5 man ciruc fight in the last 15-16 months. And still overpowered prime Lyle.

Foreman's jab often was excellent, though onconsistent, in his first career. He would use that & the uppercut vs. another swarmer as with Frazier, & push Tyson away for distance. Anyway Tyson was effective mid range & coming in, not a real inside fighter.

Holyfield, youn g, Douglas did not have the capacity to just overpower Tyson. WIth the tools above Foreman has a chance. And could come from behind.

Ali was The Greatest that night, had the heat, loose ropes, AND hanging on & pulling Foreman's neck down all night. It is hard to overestimate how tiring that is, Ali was strong too, & Tyson would & could not do that.

The speed & George getting hit COULD WELL be the difference.
Though like vs. Frazier Foreman could have enough of a stylistic advantage.

 

Tyson is too quick and Foreman is too open.

Those uppercuts could well destroy Tyson's chances though.

The only man I see beating Tyson in a war is Liston and that's because i think he will back Tyson up behind the jab first.

 

Sangria good write up but Ruddock fought Tyson toe to toe and traded with him throughout the fight, true he lost but he IMO finished the stronger fighter despite having a broken jaw. If the fight had have been 15 rounds I think Ruddock could have stopped Tyson.

Foreman's hand speed is vastly underrated at that point of his career and his uppercuts were deadly, there's no way on earth Tyson is going to win in a fire fight with Foreman. I honestly can't see Tyson lasting till the 6th round as good as he was.

 

HAHA the people who think that tyson could move back foreman is crazy.. and the most funny thing is that they act and talk like if foreman was in his absolute peak vs lyle and young (he was 27 and 28 for these fights), despite foreman lived a hard depression after ali, but we can´t mention the buster douglas fight or the holyfield fight( tyson was 24 and 30 for these fights). but according to the tyson biggest fans he was great again vs ruddock, in few words.. tyson was in shape when he won and he has an excuse when he lost,stop making stupid excuses, it is easy, styles make fights, tyson was made in order of george foreman, he was bigger, stronger, got a great chin , he had longer reach, he did hit harder, he had stylistical advantage and the most important thing ,he PROVED THAT HE COULD WIN A FIGHT AFTER HE WAS IN SERIOUS TRUBLE, TYSON NEVER DID IT

 

more desperationatsch

 

actually i don´t know who invented this joke of foreman being slow like hell.. you can see that it is simply a lie... he catched norton several times, he catched jimmy young and frazier could not even to breathe and he catche ali too.. ali did think that he was more slow than he actually was