1978 Roberto Duran vs 2003 Floyd Mayweather jr. 15 rds @ 135

Absolutely not. I wouldn't even put Corrales over Ray Lampkin.

Lampkin had serious skills and had killer speed. Fought like a Lightweight Harold Johnson, he would have cut Diego and Castillo to pieces.

Look at this jab and some of these combinations...you guys need to get off boxrec and actually watch these men in action.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yl0aARBNiI[/url]

 

Amen.

Probably my personal least favorite style to watch. The pitter patter guy. But they always know how to match those guys and which types to avoid, don't they? They just love the plodders. And the dummies in the ring.

I like the Ottke and type guys that have pitter patter punching prowess, but find a way to win anyway. To me, that's an even better skill. Go find a fighter and remove their punching power and turn them into a 5 ko's in 38 fights guy. What do you have?

 

Well said Foxy. At the time I would agree Ken was the better pure boxer he just couldn't handle such a strong natural fighter who was dirty as hell. Duran would go on to become one of the most complete fighting machines ever to lace them up when he teamed up with Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, the men who refined him into the slick as hell all round pressure fighter Duran became. Arcel taught him to be more educated with his pressure and showed him all the old school tricks inside to negotiate space, things you don't see nowadays. Duran had a lot of smarts and natural talent to begin with but Arcel polished him into a Gem. Arcel worked with old school greats like Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Tony Zale and I'm sure he also worked with Jack Kid Berg who was a another fighting machine who came from a poor background like Duran did.

 

Oh, and I don't give a **** about Ferdie. He said a lot of weird things.

 

So losing to DeJesus is better than blowing out Corrales? Sit the **** down.

 

Mongoose,

If anything modern historians have it out for Mayweather, and over rate Duran. Nothing I wrote is untrue. Duran did get Ko'd by one punch ( early in round two ), and he did quit without a major injury. How in the world is this dubious? How is pointing out Duran’s short reach would be an issue in this fantasy match up?

Duran fans tend to over rate Buchanan. He’s not a top 20 all time light weight. Duran fouled him, ( while up on points ) and never gave Kenny a re-match. That was the best lightweight Duran defeated.

The Benitiz fight showed Duran’s weakness. Duran wasn’t able to track him down. Mayweather is a master of distance, very fast, very accurate, and also good on the counter. Plus he has a better chin than Benetiz.

 

Right. The Mongoose needs to explain that one.

 

Explain what?

I never made that statement.

 

I don't see how this question is a logical response or even remotely related to what I wrote.

I'm not even sure what its an reference to. I would rather you attempt to counter my point and explain why you feel Corrales is better than Lampkin.

 

Something doesn't have to be factually incorrect to be irrelevant and seemingly brought up just to spite or pick at Duran fans because you are doing a poor job at explaining your views. You seem to be ignorant of Duran's opponents.

Because you haven't responded to the counter points of Duran overcoming larger wing spans than Floyd.

Buchanan has made top 20 in a few lists I've seen. Even than, it is dubious to state simply being outside of the top 20 in a 100 plus year old divison is to be "just decent."

Did the Benitez fight happen in 1978 at Lightweight? You might as well bring up the Lang fight, its just as telling.

 

You were responding to a statement I made about Corrales and DeJesus with your essay on Lampkin. I think you should read the statement you were responding to.

 

Mongoose,

If anything modern historians have it out for Mayweather, and over rate Duran. Nothing I wrote is untrue. Duran did get Ko'd by one punch ( early in round two ), and he did quit without a major injury. How in the world is this dubious?

How is pointing out Duran’s short reach would be an issue in this fantasy match up?

Duran fans tend to over rate Buchanan. He’s not a top 20 all time light weight. Duran fouled him, ( while up on points ) and never gave Kenny a re-match. That was the best lightweight Duran defeated.

The Benitiz fight showed Duran’s weakness. Duran wasn’t able to track him down. Mayweather is a master of distance, very fast, very accurate, and also good on the counter. Plus he has a better chin than Benetiz.

Duran was 30 years old for the Benitez fight. Benitez's wingspan was only 70", and Duran could not catch up to him! Benitiz won by 7 or more rounds by the AP and UPI cards. The fight was not as close as some of the judges had it.

Want more? Okay, Duran lost to DeJesus who was even smaller ( 5'4" 1/2 ) on points.

Sure Duran beat fighters with longer wingspans. He had to because just about everyone was longer than his. My point which has not registered with you is faster fighters with skills and a longer reach gave Duran fits.
Mayweather fits this description.

Mayweather also had a solid chin. If Benitez and Dejesus could defeat Duran, don't you think Mayweather who had an even greater reach and was more durable could do the same?

Don't you think Mayweather is better than either DeJusus or Benitez???

I think Buchanan was a solid champion who faced the worst type of stylist for him over come in Duran. He would not be in my top 25 at light weight. Still no comeback from why Buchanan never received a re-match?

I'd like to see you answer my questions.

 

Buchanan is consistently regarded as a top 15 to 25 great lightweight. Lightweight being the deepest most talent rich division in boxing history. How the hell is he getting overrated. H2H Buchanan is ranked much better. I've seen him make top 5 in lightweight fantasy match up tournaments.

Lets look at how many greats won titles at lightweight. I'll give a rough 20 odd of the greatest lightweights after looking at a few lists. I'll even include Castillo for you just to be kind and I wont place Duran n1 to prove I am not biased. n1 could go to Duran, Gans or Leonard without much debate.

1. Benny Leonard. (because Ray Arcel said he was greater than Duran)
2. Roberto Duran.
3. Joe Gans.
4. Ike Williams.
5. Pernell Whitaker.
6.Tony Canzoneri.
7. Carlos Ortiz.
8. Henry Armstrong.
9. Freddie Welsh.
10. Packey McFarland.
11. Beau Jack.
12. Barney Ross.
13. Sammy Angott.
14. Battling Nelson.
15. Lou Ambers.
16. Joe Brown.
17. George Lavigne.
18. Bob Montgomery.
19. Ken Buchanan.
20. Ad Wolgast.
21. Ismael Laguna.
22. Jose Louis Castillo :happy
23. Jack McAuliffe.
24. Willie Ritchie.
25. Shane Mosely.
26. ODLH.
27. Pac
28. May.

 

Buchanan over Mayweather and Pacquaio? Come on man. I know you need to do that to put Buchanan in your top 20 at #19 but this is just not right.

Where is Alexis Arguello? Did you forget to list? He will rate over Buchanan as well. So would Pryor.

And how about Jack Blackburn, which is debatable?

Buchanan is not top 20. Top 25 maybe.