1980: If SRL had fought Cuevas instead of Duran....

No one ever said Cuevas had the skill or the speed of Duran. Nor did he have the speed and skill of Wilfred. "Better" means nothing here -what matters is level of risk -and Cuevas was a serious risk if only because of his power alone. Take a look at that swathe he was cutting before Hearns shattered him.

I'm not saying that Leonard "ducked" him -that's a loaded and judgemental term here. I don't believe that Leonard ducked Cuevas anymore than I believe that Ray ducked Pryor. These match-ups were looked at very carefully and economically by his people -more carefully granted- than the norm -because Leonard was such a golden child. What I am saying is that Duran seemed less dangerous to Ray than Pipino and if you were Dundee and the Leonard management team you are looking very closely at who can do what and who's more cost-effective. Duran was smaller, older, and not as powerful 12 pounds north of his division. Those are indisputable facts and I have to say that hindsight seems to be blinding some posters looking at this. Now look at pre-Hearns Pipino -in other words look at Pipino the way Leonard's managment would have:

In the spring of 80, Leonard got to Dave Green, while Pipino KOd Volbrecht in 5 for his 11th title defense against opponents with a combined record of something like 515-70. 10 of these guys didn't go the distance and Pipino broke 2 of their jaws. He was 23 years old and he was scary. And he was already being hailed as among the top punchers ever in the WW division.

Duran was absolutely the more respected and more established fighter, (DPW) that is clear, but when assessing risk, Duran seemed to be the easier (not "easy" -the WWs were live during this time) opponent at the time. That is nothing less than a sensible position.

 

I am talking of after Hearns won the title you silly featherduster and comparing the scenario's.

As usual, whenever SRL is mentioned your hormones run rampant and you can't think straight, let alone type.

:blood

 

:rofl

This is the same Cuevas Randy Shields went 15 with, right? The same Shields SRL beat before he fought Cuevas?

Leonard doesn't have a chin yet he beats Duran, Hearns, Hagler and co and isn't stopped over a career of 14 years?

*Waits for the inevitable mention of Macho who Leonard took on at 41 after a 6 year retirement*

 

Leonard wide UD - power doesnt mean **** if it doesnt land, and it wouldnt

 

Lack of chin-see Marcos Geraldo, Duran, Howard, Lalonde, Norris, and even Camacho. The man just couldnt take it upstairs the way the greats Ali, Duran, Hagler and the way Cuevas was breaking bones in many of his fights does not bode well for Sugar. Could he have lasted the distance? Perhaps he could have but I doubt it. I never had much faith in his abilities as a fighter. Perhaps it was the Norris fight or maybe all of the curious retirements and comebacks.

 

Most people didnt have problems landing on Sugar. Ask Don Lalonde ask Kevin Howard ask Marcos Geraldo. I forgot, that's the part of his career we're not suppossed to look at.

 

Lack of chin? Great fighters that failed to stop him? Hagler,duran,hearns.
Good fighters that failed to stop him? Norris,lalonde.
Now lets look at your boys norris and jones,starched big time by guys much less greater than leonard fought......
Stop being a **** rooster........

 

Didn't have the chin? Is that why he has all those ko defeats?

 

Excellent post Stonehands.

There's a difference between outright ducking of an opponent and chosing the opponent that is deemed to be less risky. Cuevas pre-Hearns was an absolute terror in the welterweight division. He was widely expected to flatten Hearns too. Duran, whilst recognised as a great fighter, was fighting outside of his natural weight division where his vaunted power no longer quite had the same effect.

If you were Leonard and his team, who would you choose?

 

SRL could easily have used lateral movement to keep Pipino off of him. Other fighters, such as Randy Shields and Angel Espada, gave Cuevas trouble by boxing from center ring. Thus, SRL would have had no problem doing at least as well.

Most telling in this fight, however, was SRL's devastating power. SRL could have rained punches in on Cuevas's chin with lightning speed from many different angles, and many of those blows would have had knockout power in them. I think it would be only a matter of time before Pipino was hurt badly...maybe even stopped by a single SRL bomb.

Pipino was one hell of a fighter...I loved to watch him fight. He was one of my favorites. But I don't think Pipino had the boxing ability or durability to hang in there with an all-time great like SRL.

 

I don't think Leonard is knocking out the pre-Hearns Cuevas, who had the reputation of having an iron chin before Hearns went through him. SRL might hurt Cuevas but he sure as hell isn't knocking him out with one punch.

 

During the end of the Duran/Palomino telecast on HBO, Larry Merchant asked Carlos which champion Duran should go after (WBC-Benitez, WBA-Cuevas) "Benitez...Cuevas may be too strong for him, but it will be a great fight." (problably not exact qoute but close 'nuff)
As you stated in your post, Leonard wasn't 'ducking' Cuevas, he would have sought him out soon after he thought that he would done with Duran. Leonard, at that time, whether you liked him or not, was going to always seek out the best opponents to prove he belonged on top, that was his mentality. A point I remember (which supports your stance, btw) in the old interviews prior to the Montreal fight,Leonard DID feel he would be too big and too fast for Duran, getting to him in the eighth or ninth round. Leonard felt that he would exploit what he deemed a defensive weakness on Duran's right side, as DeJesus did in two fights.
(Hindsight is 20/20)

 

I'd call you the worst poster on the forum but we all know you are just here for a laff vs respectable and intelligent contribution

:yep

 

Who won every one of those fights again?

:rofl

 

But Cuevas was never really hit by a devastating puncher prior to meeting Hearns. Hence, we don't know for certain that he had an "iron chin" in his earlier days.