1980 jan ring magazine ali claims cleveland cleveland williams wouldve knocked him out

A 66 Ali didn't have better/improved reflexes compared to a 63 Ali, that statement doesn't make sense.
What a 66 Ali had was more power and experience.

 

Foreman and Liston did not manage to land big power punches on Ali.

 

You start this bullsh*t again?

 

All these stories of brutal Williams punching - where are his stoppages against good competition though?

Stop this, we're talking about the greatest HW ever who was almost impossible to stop in his prime and you're taking Cleveland Williams to stop him? The same Williams who never stopped any legitimate good opponent, except for young Terrell?

 

Firstly, Williams left hook is definitely better than Foreman and Liston's. Secondly, just continue to see Ali is a god whom all of the men he faced are me mortals and garbage who are nowhere near his level. We're not asking Williams to do much at all. Just simply drop him that's it.. and you see it as something that is overly impossible and unachievable.

Ali dominated and old Folley and Williams. Schooled Ernie Terrell IMHO showed terrible perfomance in his career but when faced actually prime fighters he struggled, Chuvalo and Mildenberger gave Ali a tough fight. Some people give credit to Ali beating Brian London, like WTF? London got knocked out by a washed up Nino Valdes and got destroyed Patterson. But when Ali beat him, it's "amazing". He just flurried 12 consecutive punches which most of them barely landed and people are like WOW...

In conclusion, Ali is somewhat overrated. Especially his defense. Is he still the HW Goat? Yes. but the way people see him as an unbeatable specimen is mildly INSANE. Even the best of the best GOATS have loses, they struggled, they can be beaten. Robinson, Charles, Greb, etc. They all struggled, they all have been beaten. That's why I like them, even though they're recognized as the Goats, people realize they're not unbeatable, they're just humans and have limits of their own abilities. They have to struggle when met with elite competition and thoroughly beat them in a competitive fight.

As for Ali, he's just a god. A literal god. Unbeatable, he was only defeated past his prime, in his prime no one can beat him. That's how people see him, especially casual fans. Media kept putting clips of him flurrying on Brian London, dodge 4 punches from Terrell, knocking out Williams and Folley. I find his fight Williams extremely disturbing. Putting a beating on a man who was never once he was, and after that, it has officially become Ali's best performance. What I find more disgusting is when told about Williams condition, and asked how would Williams in his prime do the result would be the "same".

 

You do know he's the only man who knocked Ernie Terrell out in his prime right?

 

Yes I know, although I wouldn't call Terrell prime in their first fight. He was in his prime in their rematch and Williams didn't stop him.

 

Whatever you say. Terrell clinch him like an octopus. When you get clinched like that is very hard to get for a knockout. Hell, Tyson couldn't even knock Bonecrusher Smith out when Smith used the same tactic

 

Don't see it at all. He relied on the left hook more, but they had much better hooks than him - Liston in particular.

I didn't say it's impossible or unachievable, but I find it very unlikely. Williams wasn't agressive swarmer who didn't give time and space for his opponents - these are the ones Ali struggled with. Williams was athletic slugger who wouldn't have speed or size advantage in this bout. He wouldn't be able to outpunch Ali and he wasn't good at cutting off the ring.

So sure - anything can happen, but Williams had a poor style to beat Ali.

Did you forget that Ali had a career outside of these fights you mentioned...?

I'm not sure why you keep talking about this "Ali is god" when I didn't say it even once. Of course Ali was beatable, everybody is beatable. I would take peak Frazier over any version of Ali. I think Ali would struggle against Holyfield or Louis. He could have problems against the best SHWs ever. Williams brings nothing to the table that would concern Ali.

 

I know it's hard to KO Terrell, but that's literally the only example of Williams stopping elite fighter. I don't deny that Williams is a hard hitter, but Ali faced plenty of hard hitters and none of them stopped him - most didn't even drop him.

 

George Foreman also thinks Williams would’ve had Ali’s number but Roy Foreman (Georges brother) the promoter idolising Williams might have something to do with that… they sparred a bit you know when George was green even stated he was amongst the hardest punchers he faced. Mm, little fun factoid Clev attacked his wife with a cleaver and on one road work trip he went to the police to retrieve the cleaver which they handed over to him.

 

I actually think prime for prime Ali still boxes the head off Williams, definitely not a KO inside 3 rounds, but a wide decision with Clev pushing Ali on the ropes a lot of rounds.

We cannot forget Terrells close fight split decision with Williams here.

 

Just to correct you, Chuvalo said Mike DeJohn was the hardest he's been hit by.