1980 Roberto Duran vs. Thomas Hearns @welter

This one would go down to the wire.....I can see it ending in a draw, simply because of the aforementioned reasons, that Duran was at his peak, while Hearns hadn't yet. I believe Hearns could edge it, though.

 

Hagler was 2 inches taller than Duran and had a 75 inch reach. He could take a bigger punch and was just stronger than Duran. The key to beating Tommy is being able to take his punch so you could hurt him. If you couldn't get to him, you wouldn't win.

Duran could never beat Duran because he would not be able to reach him without paying the price. He simply couldn't walk through Hearns' punches the way Hagler did, and he couldn't outbox him either. He had no chance.

 

I know what you mean. I don't know if I would rate Hearns higher or not. Duran accomplished a lot. I really wish he would have tried to get the 140lb titile from Pryor before he fought Leonard. That would have told a lot. To tell you the truth, after Duran moved up in weight, his career wasn't that great. He lost a lot of fights. The Leonard fight was the best fight of his career, and he never topped that, but he was never consistent after that win. He's had some amazing wins, like the Moore and the Barkley fight, but those guys both had certain limitations. Hagler gave him way too much respect. Hearn and Benitez beat him easily, though.

Hearns had great wins at weights up 175, and beat SRL up in a rematch of past their prim fighters, even though it was a draw. I guess I would rate Tommy higher, because of his win over Virgill Hill at 175. He won more titles in a much more devastating fashion than Duran. Tommy was a much more versative fighter.

 

Wow I'm surprised at how many here think Tommy beats Roberto all the time based on "style", irrespective of weight.

I've spent the last 2 weeks watching old Hearns fights at 147 & 154 and so naturally I got to thinking about this match-up at 147.

Duran at 147 - the Duran who beat Leonard, the Duran who totally dominated Carlos Palomino, has the edge here I think.

The key to beating Tommy at 147 is to get inside and break him down. In order to do that of course you have to take some punishment from his right hand. Forget about their fight at 154 as Tommy was at his absolute peak whereas Duran was well into the second phase of his 3-phase career.

The question then is do you see Duran getting on the inside where he can play the glockenspiel on Tommy's ribcage. At the lighter weight Duran has more mobility and speed and, with his superior head movement and ringcraft, I think Roberto can get inside and work Tommy on the ropes which is one place Tommy doesn't like to be.

Harold Weston, Clyde Gray & Randy Shields all gave Tommy plenty of trouble at 147 and Duran far exceeds all of these guys in terms of boxing prowess. Duran also had a solid chin as evidenced by his only KO loss to Tommy. Hearns couldn't put Mike Colbert away even though he hit him with sledgehammer rights practically all night.

The perfect time in history for this matchup would have been after the first Duran-Leonard fight and after Hearns had destroyed Cuevas. This would have unified the Welterweight crown. The mistake Cuevas made was he fought Hearns at a distance. Duran I think would not allow this to happen and would find his way inside by the mid-rounds before roughing Tommy up on the ropes, punishing his body thus taking away his legs and ending it in the later rounds similar, though a little earlier, than Heans v Leonard I.

 

Cuevas cannot not be compared to Duran. Duran was an aggressive technician of the first order, while Cuevas was a slugger and not much else.

You are correct about Duran's not being willing to stay away like Leonard did. However you forget that such a strategy almost cost Leonard the fight and would have had he continued. When he became aggressive, he started penetrating. That tells me that Duran would penetrate earlier.

 

Hearns had the frame to compete at much higher weights. Duran had really no business over Jr. WW and none at all at MW. You also forget that Duran's prime was 1978. He was already considered a top 3 ATG LW before beating Leonard -which was among the greatest feats in the sport if you look at it objectively and in its historical context. It was frosting on the cake.

Everything after that was sprinkles on the frosting.

 

Pryor wasn't the champion at the time Duran fought Leonard, let alone prior.

Also, Pryor was anything but a red hot commodity even after beating Cervantes. His stock went up WAY later.

 

The spontaneous response to the question is, "You kidden' me? Hearns by early KO." But dig a little deeper and the outcome possibilities get interesting. Most would agree that 1980 @ welter would be a much more competitive fight than 1984. Duran in 1980 was close to his peak physically and mentally. Hearns was a talented specimen with great KO power, yet not yet close to his peak. In 84' Hearns had developed through experience, good and bad, as well as physically, whereas Duran was well on the way down from his peak, his defensive movement just a shadow of what it once was. Still, I would favor Hearns because of his "styles make fights" advantages, and a mid-rounds KO would be a reasonable prediction. However, Duran @ that time could make life miserable for Hearns, focusing on inside fighting and lots of defensive movement to the point of where he may KO Hearns in the late rounds.

Great question though because the spontaneous answer is not so obvious when you dig into the details a bit.

 

same way it went at middle tbh

 

I agree with your point when comparing Cuevas and Duran. Duran for the far superior technician, but still I cannot see Duran getting inside on Hearns without having to pay a huge price.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :deal

 

Excellent analysis. Duran in his prime had a great defense and a rock solid chin. Coming off a near upset of Boxing's best fighter (Hagler) had to be a let down for Duran. And his rock solid chin made him over confident of his ability to take a punch.
A different circumstance would have yielded a different result. If Hearns was the most dominant fighter in the game at the time, a motivated Duran would have beat Hearns body all night long.

 

Disagree Stonehands. With you stating "Duran really had no business over Jr. WW" your talking as if he was much smaller than his opponents at WW. Don't forget that Duran grew into a very large lightweight at the end of his reign.

And he wasn't exactly dwarfed by Palamino and Leonard. He could certainly compete with those fighters for power, durability, and strength. Duran's strategy and the way he fought Palamino and Leonard was all about being aggressive; physically imposing himself inside.

He proved against those opponents he wasn't out of his depth, although his overall skill level played a massive part in those wins as well.

And here is something to take note of. This isn't a direct comparison to Duran's move up, but you'll find it interesting.

Shane Mosley, as you probably know, also moved up from lightweight to welterweight. And IMO his handspeed was noticeably quicker after he moved up. I'm not saying Duran was the same. Sometimes when a fighter struggles with weight, he's slower, for obvious reasons. Mosley has recently admitted that while he was boiling himself down to lightweight he was really a natural welterweight all along. Hence the reason his handspeed looked sharper after the move up to welterweight. Against lightweights he still had the power and size advantages to knock them out.

I can mind Emanuel Steward spoke to De La Hoya's trainer, Robert Alcazar, at the weigh-in for the first Mosley encounter. Alcazar turned around to Steward and said "this guys a lightweight Manny" and Steward responded with "how can he be a lightweight he's just stepped onto the scales at 147lbs". What Steward was referring to was that Mosley and De La Hoya were the same size physically, even though Mosley had been a lightweight three fights prior to facing De La Hoya.

 

:roll:

 

That also depends on Hearns' approach, which would be to keep his distance. When Duran tried to close the distance Hearns' jab would be getting shot out with regularity, and the right hand coming behind it. Hearns' maybe never moved quite as fluently as Leonard around the ring, but he posseses sufficient movement to keep Duran on the end of his punches, more often than not IMO. Duran's ability at feinting and slipping can't be overlooked here, no question. But Hearns' longer reach, speed, and power would more than likely prove too much.

 

On those citing Duran's lack of "hunger" and a killer instinct in the ring...

What about Hearn's carrying his "nice guy" mentality into the ring?

Surely he could of been far more lethal and dominating in some fights if he was there with Duran's mentality, like he had against Moore.