1980"s H-weights..who was biggest wasted talent?

markclitheroe · Oct 14, 2013

Anubis...sorry to hear about your medical woes.
I am sincerely anticipating your appraisal of Mr Tyrell Biggs.
Thanks.Mark.

Saintpat · Oct 14, 2013

Give me Greg Page for 1,000, Alex.

frank · Oct 14, 2013

Anubis said: ↑

Mark and Frank, many apologies for not having yet been able to reply to your inquiries as I intend to. Rather than send you both PMs, I thought it might be better decorum to let you know on this thread why I haven't responded to your polite inquiries yet.

I've been here, but have been struggling with a ferocious chronic headache most of the time in recent weeks. It's being caused by a treatment resistant cervical misalignment which even oxycodone does nothing to relieve.

Numerous chiropractic adjustments keep reversing themselves, and an over the door cervical traction unit with 20 pounds of weight in the water bag used for 10 to 20 minutes at a time hasn't effectively relieved it yet. In another six hours I'm going in for my fourth acupuncture needling to try releasing some of the muscular tension patterns which are reversing all these adjustments. [I also have the use of a gravity inversion table, but my lower back seems to clench up in protest when I'm hanging upside down.] This has been a frustrating month. [It all started when I mysteriously woke up with a frozen back on the first of June. I've never experienced anything like the last four and a half months.]

Obviously, some of the lengthy posts I coughed up in this thread take some measure of time, thought and concentration [as well as research while I'm composing them], and I can't very well do that when my head hurts so much I can't even see straight, let alone think clearly. I definitely want to provide comparable replies to your questions, because they're good questions, and it's an interesting thread. [I posted that erroneous comment about Cobb being Norton's lowest weight since Ali III at a moment when my head had begun pounding again, making it necessary for doug.ie to correct me on that factoid.]

Trying to answer questions like Doug's about Dokes is a lot more challenging than posting unsolicited opinions, rebuttals, or trying to add information to a discussion. I want to try addressing your curiosity in a way I like my own curiosity to be satisfied. In post #24, I did reviews of Cobb-Dokes I & II to refresh and supplement my recall of other related past events.

Your questions about Cobb, Shavers, Weaver and Biggs are short and simple enough, but being a retired auditor, I demand hard and detailed answers for myself in response to good questions asked of me which I might offer. I had no idea when October began that I'd still be struggling with these issues halfway through the month. I've continued posting, yes, and some of them have been rambling, but trying to provide acceptable feedback to sincere inquisitiveness entails an entirely higher level of responsibility for me. I can only think for myself and my physical pain right now, but when I'm able to focus and concentrate properly again, I intend to provide you the same level of subjective analysis I gave Doug.ie about Dokes.
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Hi Anubis,thanks for the response and sorry about your health issues.I wish you a speedy recovery and if you can(when you can) look forward to your insights.take care.Frank.

turpinr · Oct 16, 2013

witherspoon definitely.

fists of fury · Oct 16, 2013

Anubis said: ↑

Quick Tillis is an astute overlooked shout, and he had Dundee and Bundini training him during what should have been his peak years. However, he also had a problem which likewise torpedoed the championship aspirations of promising LW Cubanito Perez, ALLERGIES!

It wasn't deliberate substance abuse which ruined him, but a substance abuse problem which wasn't even diagnosed until 1986. Careful medical scrutiny uncovered a severe allergy to milk and eggs. These are well known food allergens, but also a staple of diet for many boxers. The first match James had after ditching those poisons to his system was Tyson, and the dramatic improvement in his stamina was evident, but he was now closing in on 30 with his best potential behind him. 31-9 after Tyson in that era was too big a hole to climb out of. He was a 6'1" HW without top shelf power.

What if Quick's allergies to eggs and milk had been diagnosed in his amateur days? A lot of books warning about food allergens like milk and eggs were published during the 1970s, but excluding those from a boxer's diet went against traditional orthodoxy. As it was, many questions were being raised about Howard Davis, Jr's. vegetarianism [which may indeed well account for Howard's costly lack of power and punch resistance].

Given a diet appropriate for his needs and physical tolerances, Quick Tillis may well not have gassed against Weaver in 1981, and taken the WBA Title as many expected him to.

Sometimes, I wonder if something similar hindered Jimmy Ellis, who also had troubles with stamina and poor recuperative powers despite his distance orientation. Unlike Gerrie Coetzee and Jerry Quarry, Tillis and Ellis were not deficient in confidence about their stamina and abilities. They genuinely tried to do the best they knew with support from the same HOF trainer. James was inadvertently sabotaged by substances poisonous to him just as Foreman tried to claim he purposely was by Dick Sadler in Kinshasa.

Now, I know a number of people with previously undiagnosed lactose intolerance, Crohn's and coeliac disease, even whole grain allergies, as well to eggs. Maybe a number of you likewise are personally acquainted with such cases. I've seen the dramatic improvement in these people after years of suffering. Usually, the causes of these problems are finally determined and corrected when they're far older than professional athletes.

For me, what James Tillis did achieve is remarkable on two fronts. He got as far as he did despite an undiagnosed debilitation, and he was finally availed of a cause and solution, which while too late to salvage his career, also came early enough in his life to improve the quality of that life at an earlier age than most non athletes. He might as well have had severe anemia without knowing it when he stepped in the ring with Weaver.

He didn't hit the skids in retirement, and he didn't wind up a bum all his life like Dundee warned him he might when he was fading against Hercules. He kept his roots in Tulsa, sired a daughter who became a success in collegiate and professional basketball, and appears to have been a solid character since leaving the ring. He has outlived conquerors Johnny DuPlooy, Carl Williams, Tommy Morrison and Greg Page. [I'm omitting Gary Mason from that group because Gary didn't die as a result of organic disease like Johnny or Carl, boxing inflicted injuries by staying around too long like Greg, or self destructive behavior like Tommy, but because he was hit by a damned van while cycling.] Maybe, just maybe, Tillis is still alive and well today because of his boxing career, and the crippling food allergies which were diagnosed early as a result of it.
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Quality post. I've always had a soft spot for James Tillis.

One thing though...in the Weaver fight I think Tillis just didn't take his chances. Maybe lacking stamina was partly to blame for this, but to me he just was far too reluctant and hesitant and you could also see the frustration building up in Dundee as the rounds passed.
Tillis hit Weaver with a great shot in the 14th which rocked Mike, but Tillis was slow to follow up and he let Weaver off the hook. I think that moment was a microcosm of the fight itself - Tillis just being too reluctant and 'fighting scared.'
A pity...I felt Weaver was there to be taken that night.

Here is a nice little interview with James I found a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxnmaX4FAo

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1980"s H-weights..who was biggest wasted talent?

markclitheroe TyrellBiggsnumberonefan. Full Member

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1980"s H-weights..who was biggest wasted talent?

markclitheroe TyrellBiggsnumberonefan. Full Member

Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

frank Active Member Full Member

turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member