1985-86 Larry Holmes vs 1952 Archie Moore

I learned a long time ago many people don’t know **** about boxing. Their opinion means nothing. I know my track record in picking fights. Once again old Larry never beat anyone on prime Moore’s caliber by that age. Prime for prime I pick Larry. But by this stage he isn’t beating a great HW like Archie, and yes he was a great HW. U keep bringing up size which says to me u really don’t know much of Archie’s record. He beat a ton of men at that weight. He also had more wins against prime ranked men then anyone not named Sam Langford who didn’t win it all.

I like the 50s for many reasons but I make my pics logically. To suggest otherwise means u don’t read my posts or ur just obsessed w Marciano. Archie Moore is an ATG and often voted the greatest LHW ever and u think it’s foolish he couldn’t beat a well past it Holmes? Maybe it’s u who should take off the rose colored glasses

 

You're living proof some people DKSAB. You took a stab claiming my heart was ruling my head, i reciprocated mildly about the rose colored glasses and you are now off and running so i'd best keep up with the insults or get ahead on them.

Your track record? What exact fights have you picked that turned out correct?

Moore fought Marciano at his most worn and got whooped. I'd go so far as to say Moore never beat anyone as good as tired old Holmes at heavyweight - and he didn't. The top tier heavies he faced all belted him.

It's hardly a difficult choice.

Moore is simply not a "great HW". To claim anything other is plain ludicrous but it certainly shows how deep your bias and lack of knowledge runs.

I know heaps about Archie's record but more importantly i am not biased either for or against it. He beat a ton of men at that weight and most weren't jack. It was also a weak era. Why don't you whip up his top 10 heavyweights wins.

At heavyweight? I'd like to see all these prime ranked men he won against at heavyweight.

You are heavily biased toward the 50's heavies and I've exposed you on it a while back.

As for Marciano, why do you bring up Marciano? Let me tell you why - YOU are obsessed with him. I barely ever post about him and never flog him.

Absolutely he is an ATG! At light heavyweight!!!!! He's very good at best in the open division. I rate Ezzard Charles the greatest 175 as do some of the best judges and writers I've come across. I'll still take aged Holmes.

The vote is now 12 vs 1 (you are the only 1!) favoring old Holmes over Moore. Do all 12 of us not know **** about boxing? Only you do out of 13 voters?

I'm stoked someone thinks i have rose tinted glasses toward Holmes as years ago i used to get whined at for the opposite. It really centers my chi.

 

"Now I am become bias, the destroyer of forums."

 

The destroyer of oneself's reputation.

 

Ur lack of knowledge of Moore and then the hubris displayed by what u wrote is rather astounding…ignorance is bliss I suppose. Moore is something like 64-4 at HW only losing to HOFs three of which was when he was over the age of 38 and 1 was a cheap shot by Bivins. Which he avenged four times after. I would hope u know the other 3 fighters. I’ll take a moment to educate u on the great Archie Moore in an attempt to cure ur ignorance. Great ranked men Archie beat whom had great or good careers at HW some were not ranked at exact moment but most were ranked and most were in prime.
Bivins x 4
Nino Valdez x2
Bob Baker
Harold Johnson (who had an excellent career at Hw fights were at LHW) x 3
Clarence Henry
Curtis Sheppard
Bob Satterfield
Jimmy Slade
Alejandro Laverante
Joey Maxim x4 although at LHW he also had good wins at hw
Honorable mention to the likes of
Henry Hall
Abel Cestac who was 6”4 224 pounds
Bert Whithurst
And many more.
In the book Boxing by the Numbers by James Vincent Trunzo Archie Moore was the 16 ranked HW ever. Using the same formula to rank every HW of significance ever Moore was able to place 16 amongst his peers only being beaten out by
Joe Louis
Ali
Liston
Foreman
Jeffries
Marciano
Frazier
Holmes
Lewis
Tyson
Langford
Tunney
Jack Johnson
Bowe
Vitali
That’s it…the author was shocked himself when he learned of Archie’s accomplishments. That doesn’t mean Archie beats all the men below him. H2h determinations factor in many things but it points to his success at hw which is often forgotten or ignored.

hopefully u learned something. Now please give me a list of men Larry Holmes beat in 85-86. U really think an inactive,rusty looking, no stamina having, slower version, of Larry Holmes is beating a prime Archie Moore? Take off ur rose colored glasses.

I’ve predicted almost every fight I’ve watched the last ten years w the exception of AJ Ruiz 1. Told many of u years ago Usyk was the best and was laughed at as u do now. U can go back and find the posts.

I like the 50s. Doesn’t mean I don’t like the 90s or 60s and 70s. It’s just that u hate Marciano and ur rather obsessed w him. So anything in ur eyes related must be crushed. It’s a rather odd disorder at this point

 

Even past best, I've got Holmes koing him 10 - 15.

 

Was there?? Wonder if he's on here now?

 

What a dishy guy..

 

Moore's heavyweight record has been put up on the forum umpteen times. Every serious boxing follower knows roughly what it is. Trouble is it is 90% filler which i will address in an upcoming post. A couple actually. I don't like dissing Archie, i'm a bit fan but you need to be brought back down to earth.

You couldn't educate anyone on this forum. I will address your list and put it in it's place later. So disingenuous.

McGrain put Moore #38 i think. His list is the only one i really worry about nowadays as most are trash.

I've learned that you haven't learnt a thing in your hiatus. Not one.

Well take a look at the "hubris". I don't believe you've predicted almost every fight you've watched in the last 10 years, not even a little. No-one does. Where can i find your picks before every one of these fights?

Usyk? Every man and their dog was into Usyk including plenty in here. Only one of them seems to think it needed a crystal ball.

You must be damned short on brains. You've brought up Marciano again and claimed i hate him and am obsessed with him. Put down the crack pipe kiddo. You go and find some genuine anti Marciano posts I've made...should be easy given your claims!!!! If you can't please consider that you might be a little "touched". You've brought him up multiple times and I've barely mentioned him except via Moore's heavyweight record. Little wonder people have such a passion for taking you and Marciano down.

Lets call a spade a spade after your above claims. It's incredibly important for you to boost Moore as Marciano is obviously your hero given the amount of times you bring him up out of no-where. You're in dozens of threads arguing his merits page after page after page. Me? I'm no-where to be seen and if i am i am giving Marciano a gentle plug. Have some pride.

 

Bivins - very good fighter but undersized comparative to Holmes era. Would have been a cruiser in the 190 pound era.
Valdes - (with an "s" fyi) barely won a round vs a 176 pounder prior to Archie and was in the midst of a 4 fight losing streak. Inconsistent and not that good. A bit of a Bonecrusher Smith for the era.
Bob Baker - Reasonable boxer that lacked a punch. KO'd in 2 1/2 minutes by Bob Satterfield the year before he went 8 with Archie. No great shakes.
Harold Johnson - Neither over 180 in their series and at times both below 175. Does little for his heavyweight resume. We know he's an amazing 175.
Clarence Henry - Cruiser that wouldn't remotely get near a ranking in Holmes era...at any weight i'd say.
Curtis Shepperd - Light Heavy/Cruiser no chance of a ranking in Holmes era of heavyweights.
Bob Satterfield - Glass cannon, huge puncher but too many flaws.
Jimmy Slade - Mostly a LHW with very very little in the W column. Was ko'd 2 fights prior to the Moore fight by a no name yet went the distance with Archie.
*Lavorante - (spelt with an O) Extremely short of good wins.
Maxim - No interest in LHW wins in a vs Holmes discussion.
Henry Hall - 2 fights around LHW they went 1-1. Irrelevant.
Abel Cestac - A 224 non entity. Hadn't won a fight in his previous 3 before fighting Archie. Below Tex Cobb sparring partner level.
*Bert Whitehurst - Tough but not much chop.

That's done nothing for me. I already know the bigger name heavies he fought and the results.

As per the original request tho just name his best 10 wins at HEAVYWEIGHT. It should be easy the way you have championed him in that division.

 

You’ve said nothing of any note about the sport of boxing here. Just buffoonish insults, get bent u dope

 

Again a total lack of Intelligence posted here. I named 15 great wins u mental midget. Against HOF caliber men.

Jimmy Bivins wins speak for themselves. Absolute insanity. Man beat Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe, Archie Moore, men who weighed well over 200 in Turkey Thompson, Lee Q Murray. beat him 4x

Harold Johnson beat Eddie Machen, Nino Valdez, Godoy, Brothers, Satterfield, Bivins, Moore. Again HOF record speaks for itself beat him 3x that’s 7 wins against HOF men and we just started

Nino Valdez x2. I don’t personally think much of Nino but he’s kind of the Bonecrusher comparison is similar maybe Nino had a few better wins w a few worse losses. Still two good wins.

Bob Baker was an excellent contender not great but a damn good fighter who if he had better hands would have gone further possibly, I’m done listing everyone’s wins go look them up for yourself. His scalps speak for themselves and the longevity of his career


Clarence Henry was a 6”1 prime contender that also has wins that speak for themselves. Your argument about weight is a nothing burger. It brings nothing to the table about what men would have done at any time as men under 200 ruled the division more so than men over for decades. That’s 11 great wins but u can minus 3 for Harold Johnson if u like despite him crushing HWs for a long time.

Bob Satterfield “the glass cannon”. He’s a tough one to rank on an all time scale but his successful wins outweigh his godawful losses. Still a good win. He didn’t care about size as much as u beating several big men in Valdez, Baker, Williams etc that’s 9 or 12 r we counting along still don’t want u to get lost

Curtis Sheppard is quoted as being one of the hardest hitters ever. Beat him x2 that’s 11 or 14 wins

Joey Maxim is a man of note despite the wins at LHW. He beat a decent amount of men of note at Hw to be mentioned if he any to be anal like w Harold Johnson so be it but that’s 4 wins. Please send me five contenders with 10 better wins then Archie Moore if u just want the name of 10 scalps they must be better then this
Jimmy Bivins
Nino Valdez
Bob Baker
Clarence Henry
Bob Satterfield
Harold Johnson
Joey Maxim
Curtis Sheppard
Jimmy Slade
Alejandro Lavorante (or Hall or Whitehurst or Davidson)

once again ur argument about weight is not a serious one as it wasn’t serious at any point in time. More cruisers would be contending if there wasn’t a cruiser division today. Hopefully reading comprehension is a bit better today. Please post another five contenders w ten better wins or don’t post at all

 

He is an ATG light heavyweight,I don't think he is an ATG heavyweight