Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Holmes77, Aug 5, 2022.
Neither of whom beat him, my friend.
You could make a reasonable argument, that he should be favorite over everybody after him.
He was basically the last great heavyweight, who didn't lose to somebody unpardonable.
However he did have a lot of close fights.
He would probably have picked up an 0 much sooner, in a stronger era.
It wouldn't necessarily take one of the greats to do it.
I'd be most confident in Tyson. I'd favor Lewis by a whisker. Holyfield might take one in a trilogy and not impossible the best of Bowe does. Wouldn't favor them tho.
After rewatching the Cooney fight the other day i actually think Wlad might be a danger hiding in plain site. Cooney's height, reach and good jab took him pretty deep and saw him have some success tho Holmes always looked the better man. Wlad has that huge right hand, a great jab and big size on top. I think he's a very very awkward fight. Holmes would have to be very patient working his way through that artillery. Holmes isn't an overly big puncher and a lot might come down to this level of power vs Wlad's chin. Wlad's durability you'd think was better under Steward as he was far more relaxed and calm. Holmes wouldn't die wondering if he didn't enjoy his usual success on the outside because he's made of that sort of stuff. It's a great match.
None of them but some give Larry a hell of a fight. From that period - 1985 up to the present day I rate Holmes as the number one heavy.
Bowe, Vitali, Fury, Wilder. Even Lewis and Wlad's loses came against solid guys. Ditto Joshua.
Now there I would have to disagree.
Tyson had no business losing against Douglas, Holyfield had no business losing against Moorer, and Lewis had no business losing against Rahman.
The guys that they lost to would have long since been forgotten about, apart form that signature upset.
Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, and Holmes, simply didn't drop the ball against that kind of opponent.
In their defense, you could argue that the men that Tyson/Holifield/Lewis lost to, were legitimate contenders, who some champion was going to have to face.
A defense of Wlad, would be a bit more complex.
Now Joshua's legacy, will never recover from his loss to Andy Ruiz.
This is a guy who was not even in eh top ten, who was brought in as a substitute, and we would probably never have heard of otherwise!
I happen to think that Joshua had an impressive run of from, but it is what it is.
Everybody else are underdogs.
Michael Spinks wasn't an invulnerable heavyweight and I'll be nice and discount Holmes' other loses. Sanders might take Spinks's head off in a round. Rahman, Ruiz, Brewster, and McCall would all have chances to beat him when on top of their game.
Notice that Holmes lost twice to Spinks, Lewis avenged his loses, and the others passed without a rematch.
And Vitali has no bad loses, each to top guys under bad luck circumstances.
We are talking Prime Holmes. Larry was past his prime Vs Spinks and to be honest he got robbed in the rematch also
I was talking to Janitor. Stay your lane, son.
I give Lewis, Tyson, Fury, Wlad, his brother VK, a good chance.
Like a few have already stated , I’d give Lewis and Tyson the best chance. Usyk would be an interesting match - a very awkward and busy customer. Of those 3, I could accept Lewis at even money or slightly better. The other two as underdogs but by no means prohibitive.
I see Fury making Larry work for it. Larry wins but scrapes thru by the skin of his teeth.
The important question to ask with any upset, is what does the fighter that achieved the upset look like, if you erase it from their record.
If you take away Spinks win over Holmes, then he is still one of the greatest light heavyweights of all time.
If you take away Rahman's win over Lewis, then he is basically a good contender, and a belt holder, but not exactly a standout.
If you take away Sanders win over Wlad, then there is nothing much to suggest that he is in Rahman's class.
If you take away Ruiz Jr's win over Joshua, then there is nothing to suggest that he should even be fighting for a title, and indeed he might never have done so if Miller hadn't failed his drug test.
These upsets are not the same.
If you take away Spinks' wins over Holmes, he'd just be an undersized heavyweight with a far worse resume than Marvis Frazier at heavy.
If you take away Rahman's win over Lewis, he'd still be a heavyweight champion.
If you take away Sanders' win over Wlad, he still almost beat Rahman, gave Vitali hell while past it, and dominated cruiserweight champions who moved up like Cole, Czyz, and Nelson.
If you take away Ruiz's win over Joshua, he still almost won a championship and is a current contender.