1991 foreman vs Marciano

Can't go against Marciano. His stats are ****in' absurd which is why he dominates d20 based systems. No one caused more retirements or broken bones in the history of the HW division. No one ever registered more kinetic energy in a punch than Marciano, and most importantly no one knows for sure what it takes to stop Marciano.

Something like 25 retirements due to injuries sustained in a Marciano fight, absurd KO percentage, and more power than most handguns. Fighter and Fight of the year awards like they're candy, HOF wins like they're easy, and the most dominant champion ever seen. He beat the champion, the former champion, the former former champion, the european champion, the british champion, the LHW champion, and the guys who inspired Ali's rope-a-dope, Ali's shuffle, and Ali's phantom punch.

The Spartans used to train their skulls to be thicker, but even then the human limit is just enough to take a period axe, copper, tin, bronze etc. Not nearly enough to eat Marciano's right hand. If Rock goes full force that means death. That's how he was able to break shoulders with punches.

I love me some Foreman, but no one beats Marciano on a h2h unless you **** with his stats. The only way to beat Marciano is ranking and by semantics based trinket counts and unsupportable claims like "but him were old doe".

Back when they made the Super Fight film a computer claimed Marciano would win. Run a d20 today and in 2017 a computer still claims Marciano will win. The only way to beat him is to ignore his numbers and supplement those facts with your own opinions.

 

Which fighters suffered broken bones against him? Name 2?
Any computer will choose a fighter with an unbeaten record it is a given.
What a computer cannot do is differentiate between the quality of the fighters respective opposition .

 

Roland LaStarza and Archie Moore, but asking that makes me assume you've done little to no research into Marciano or even the fifties to form these strong opinions of the man and time.

Nonsense, Marciano isn't the only unbeaten HW, he's not the only unbeaten HW champion, he just the only HW champion to retire unbeaten in the gloved boxing, since the queensberry rules were instated. If all you needed was an 0 and loads of wins then Theagenes would dominate the d20 not Marciano. You sir are assuming.

Exactly, what a computer can not do is substitute statistics for opinions.

edit- of to or, it messed with the sentence too much to leave

 

You must be unfamiliar with Cooper. Erskine was world rated when he was knocked out by Cooper. He knocked out Brian London quicker than Nino Valdes, Floyd Patterson and Jerry Quarry. I could go on and on. Coopers left hook was famous for more than decking Ali. Remind me about the resume of Ken Lacusta...

Thankyou Foreman won by majority Decision. This means it's not a clear win dosnt it? Axcel Schulz. If Bald George is an ATG where do you rank Schulz?

Marciano beating Joe Louis is still a #1 contender. it took baldy George 12 rounds to get a MAjority decision with euro level Schulz. He took Crawford Grimsby the distance. He did not beat Alex Stewart or Tommy Morrison either..

Walcott was regarded as the worlds best heavyweight at that time. If you don't think he was please, Who was better in 1952? And no, it was not that weak of an era. Joe Louis, savold, Baksi, Valdes, Satterfeild, Baker, Layne, Lastarza, Charles, Moore, Harold Johnson..

please. This is silly. Don't even pretend it is sarcasm.

a sweet sack of bull siht more like..

I agree with the excellent matchmaking part. Certainly Rocky was nursed along in provedence but once they let him off the reigns Rocky climbed the ranks beating guys rated ahead of him like Layne, Louis, Savold, Mathews to get his shot. As champion he never went lower than #2 for a challenger. Where as Bald Foreman barely beat rated fighters before challenging, lost his first title chance before gaining another crack at the title on the back of another loss...then after that surprise win he selected a Euro for his first defence then dumped the belts to face unranked guys..

 

What is your evidence of Archie Moore taking a dive?
Paul Gallender mentioned it as fact in his Valentines to Sonny Liston but then again he has said Sonny was close to 50 when he fought Ali.

I'm no Rockinista but the 1st Walcott fight is one of my all time favorites and I really doubt Patterson, Machen or Ingo sacred him into retirement.

 

I bet you won't get an answer.

Those pesky Rockophiles...

 

Lol, I think you meant to say Rockophobes?

 

Not as funny as your purposeful failure to correctly analyze the footage.

 

Yes I think Rockophobe sounds less sordid..

 

Neither Lastarza or Moore suffered broken bones against Marciano.Lastarza is said to have incurred broken blood vessels is his forearms in their second fight.


The other fighter you mentioned fought in the era of the cestus and was not factored into Murray Woroner's computer whenhe mad e his famous ranking of the heavyweight champions. My name is Willis Applegate, I fought Rocco Francis Marchegiano in his back yard and was the victim of a hometown decision.
Welcome to the Forum!

 

Great post.

 

Are you messing about? Is this some form of joke I'm not cool enough to understand?

According to Bill Libby in The Story of a Champion from 1971 they did and it was chips in LaStarza's elbows not blood vessels in his forearms, though I can't imagine those would be in good shape either. I'm open to making mistakes as I do cover a huge range, but this wasn't one kiddo.

I spoke about the super fight well before I mentioned Theagenes of Thasos because Theagenes was in reference to the assertion that all you need is an 0 to dominate d20, and I pointed out he was before gloved boxing so I don't understand yer point. I'll make it easy on you, you can plug Theagenes in any current d20 system and he will not dominate because we don't know anything beyond he is claimed to have had something like 1k wins to no losses. You can put that in and guess what? It's not enough information to save the man from Thasos from stat gods like Tyson, Ali, Johnson, or Louis.

Finally Willis died in the 60s, and everyone who ever went to decision with Marciano claimed they were robbed. Not sure why you'd claim to be a dead man, but getting UD'd and crying foul is par for the course.

The truth is by numbers there is a high probability of anyone losing against Marciano. The next highest probability would being KO'd by Marciano. The next highest probability would being injured so badly you retire after the next five fights or so. The next highest probability is you've been hit so hard he's cracked your skull or shattered your arms or some such. No matter who you are, anyone in history from 686 to today, you do not pair a man against Marciano unless you mean that comparison to be a trinket count or some other semantics based nonsense.

Thanks for the welcome lad.

 

I am not going to respond to the entirety of your post, but I have to pull you up on a couple of points, because they stray beyond bad interpretation, into the realm of being straight up wrong.

Archie Moore did not take a dive.

He spent years chasing a title fight against Marciano, and clearly wanted the fight badly.

No fighter is going to take a dive, by dropping their opponent and hurting him, then taking a shellacking over a large number of rounds.

The risks associated would just be too great.

Marciano was carefully guided to a title shot, but in his early fights he was actually being matched to lose.

His handlers didn't expect him to get far, so they used him to pad the records of their prospects.

After he unexpectedly flattens a couple of them, they decide that it might be worth investing a bit of time and effort in him.
[/QUOTE]and then retires just as some decent contensers (ingo, floyd, liston, machen) come around the corner to preserve his record.[/QUOTE]
Ingo, Floyd, Machen, and Liston were not even remotely on the horizon when Marciano retired.

The talk was of people like Pastrano, Valdez or Jackson as opponent number 50.

If anything he retired because there was nobody much left!

 

Can you give me a link to these fights? Or did you see them first hand?

The difference Walcott is an atg when Moorer wasn't even close.

This is flat out absured. I'm pretty sure you're trolling.

Ok now I'm positive you're trolling.

You're right about the bolded. Everything else is just disturbing to read. It's clear that you have some sort of mental insanity going on because not only are you arguing against Marciano beating Foreman but you have some deep rooted hate for Marciano that pushes you to make up extravagant fantasies.

 

Rocky Marciano is certainly a polarizing figure that is undisputable.