1991 - Holyfield/Tyson - Who Wins?

Some great responses here.

I'll chime in with my opinion on a prime 88 Tyson v. prime 90-91 Holyfield.
I think a matchup between these two prime v. prime does become a pick-em fight.

Where as a fight in 91 I favor Holyfield to win 70-30 odds wise.

88 Tyson v. 90-91 Holy is a legitimate 50-50 odds pick em fight. I can see Tyson winning a decision on pts due to the improved defense and having Rooney in the corner. Tyson could stop Holyfield but I still feel it would be very difficult given Holy's chin and determination. Remember, only Bowe knocked Holy out, and up through 96, Holyfield had only been knocked down by Bert Cooper and Bowe in their first fight. Regarding Cooper, I agree that the reason he got hurt there was the lack of respect. In any case, Holy could take a punch as well as any heavyweight I've seen. So if Tyson wins, I think it is by decision.

Having said that, I still pick Holyfield in a prime v. prime matchup because of his superior boxing skills. Tyson said Holyfield was the best counter puncher he'd seen. Tyson had maybe the fastest hands in the history of the heavyweight division, but Holyfield's hands were almost as fast, remember he was a Cruiser for a while. If you watch their fight in 96, Holy oftentimes gets off his shots before Tyson, so handspeed wise they were fairly close.

Also, Tyson's significant power advantage is negated somewhat by Holyfield's chin and his determination not to lose.

Tyson was truly great from 86-88 and I think he is often underrated as I think that Tyson would have a legitimate shot to beat any ATG heavy, not saying he'd be favored, but he'd have a live shot against anyone because he was so explosive. Having said that, there are certain fighters who style wise I think would always trouble him.

For instance, I think a prime Tyson loses to prime Ali (see Tyson's difficulties against Pinkon Thomas and James Tillis for evidence of fighters that could move and jab effectively), prime Louis (too good), prime Foreman (made to order - see Frazier), prime Liston (close one here but Liston's 84 inch reach with that jab is the difference), and yes prime Holyfield (granite chin, superior boxer, better late in fights, almost as fast, greater heart and determination).

I think prime Tyson takes prime Lewis out because I've got to believe that Tyson would get to that chin at some point in the first 5 rounds and put Lewis out. If Lewis survived the first 5 rounds, then he'd have a legit shot to pull it out, but I don't see him being able to fend off a prime Tyson. For the record, I consider Lewis's chin to be questionable, I would not go far as to call it weak (he did take shots from sluggers like Tua and Ruddock), but my point is that his chin could be gotten to and he could be put out. Getting 1-punch KO'd once to a 2nd tier fighter is a fluke perhaps (McCall), twice (Rahman) is enough that it is not unreasonable to think a prime Tyson puts Lewis out and in fact is the most likely scenario.

Prime Tyson beats Prime Bowe because Bowe was too easy to hit. Bowe would no doubt score some monster shots of his own. If Bowe were smart he'd try to use his jab and box his way to victory but I don't see it. That fight would have been amazing, probably would have been like Hagler-Hearns at heavyweight, can't imagine it would go more than 5 or 6 rounds.

So I still see Holyfield taking a prime matchup against an 88 Tyson but I have full respect for those who see a Tyson win. These two guys are my two favorite heavies and the reason I got into boxing, so that's why I am so interested to see how people see a fight like this turning out.

I'm happy we as boxing fans got to see Tyson and Holyfield fight twice in 96-97 but can't help but wish we could have gotten the matchup earlier when they were both in their primes or close. While they were both formidable in 96, both were past their best and I think most would agree.

Thus Tyson Holyfield I and II definitely are relevant and count in the discussion about who the best fighters were, but they are not as significant fights as Bowe-Holy I and II - two fights when both fighters were absolutely in their prime.

Where as I find Lewis-Tyson to be a fight that counts for very little - I give Lewis credit for his dominating performance but he was fighting a Tyson that was so faded that his victory means little in the grand scheme of things. Tyson was 36 or 37 at the time of the Lewis fight. The last time he was close to a top notch fighter was 96 (though certainly not prime). Also, Tyson weighed 234 pounds for the Lewis fight, a ridiculous weight considering ideally he'd be between 216-218 lbs.

For the record, I do consider Lewis an ATG heavy but he's between 11-15 for me. Very impressed by his destruction of Rudduck in 92, and his domination of Rahman in their rematch fight. Also, his 2 wins against Holyfield are significant in my opinion. I do give him credit. I had him winning the first Holy fight 9-3, and while the 2nd fight was much more competitive, I still had Lewis winning 8-4 in the 2nd fight. In many ways, his performance against Holyfield in fight I is his best performance because of the quality of opposition. Lewis put on a clinic that night with his jab, throwing at least 40 of them a round, he certainly was robbed in that first fight. Lewis himself has said that Holyfield was the best fighter he ever faced.

Having said that - while Lewis/Holy I and II certainly count much more than Lewis/Tyson - I don't consider those fights as significant as Tyson/Holy I and II - and nowhere near as significant as Bowe/Holy I and II (prime v. prime). Holyfield was still formidable in 99 no doubt, but he was at least 6 years removed from his prime (Bowe II). He did not have near the workrate he did in his prime which is why I think a prime Lewis/Holyfield matchup ultimately goes to Holy by decision. I think Holyfield would outwork Lewis, who as great a fighter as he was, had a tendency to take his time too much in fights, and thus I see Holyfield winning a close fight on pts due to workrate. Certainly I'd agree that Lewis/Holy prime v. prime is a pick-em fight, but again I like Holy in the matchup still.

Sidenote - in real terms, the closest we could have gotten to a prime Lewis/Holy clash would have been 1994 or 1995. Probably 1995 if you could change history and have Holy beating Moorer in their first fight to retain the titles and also no heart problems. Then you'd have to wait until Emanuel Steward got a hold of Lewis after the McCall fight, and thus the fight would have been ideal in early to mid 1995. Holy's not prime, but damn near close at this point. Lewis is almost prime as now he's got Steward to polish his jab and defense. So 95 would probably have been the best time for their clash.

Thanks for the responses

 

Does any one know if Tyson's rib injury was legit or not? I assume he was hurt, but it would be really disappointing if he wasn't and just didn't want the fight for some reason.

In any case, in a perfect world this fight would have gone off as scheduled and us boxing fans would have a better picture as to who was better.